Beretta Backers Beat Down the .45 Revival

Strategy Page ^ | 9/25/06 | n/a

[kiriath_jearim]

September 24, 2006: Earlier this year, the U.S. Department of Defense began a search for a new .45 caliber combat pistol. Now that search has been mysteriously called off. The Department of Defense has announced, without any explanation, that is no longer looking for a new combat pistol.

Last January, after two decades of use, the U.S. Department of Defense appeared to be getting rid of its Beretta M9 9mm pistol, and going back to the 11.4mm (.45 caliber) weapon. There have been constant complaints about the lesser (compared to the .45) hitting power of the 9mm, as well as reliability problems with the Beretta. And in the last few years, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the marines have officially adopted .45 caliber pistols as "official alternatives" to the M9 Beretta.

Back in January, SOCOM was given the task of finding a design that will be suitable as the JCP (Joint Combat Pistol). Various designs were to be evaluated, but all had to be .45 caliber and have a eight round magazine (at least), and high capacity mags holding up to 15. The new .45 was also to have a rail up top for attachments, and be able to take a silencer. Length was to be no more than 9.65 inches, and width no more than 1.53 inches.

The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense planned to buy 645,000 JCPs. But now, the troops are being told to keep their 9mm Berettas, and all the complaints they have about those weapons.

[KoRn]

I have both a Berretta 92FS and an H&K USP .45 tactical. I would prefer the H&K hands down. I love my Berretta, but the H&K is simply better. My only knock against the H&K is it's a little bulky.

[Blue Jays]

A small handgun is much better than no handgun at all and just some harsh words.

[longtermmemmory]

I am wondering if this is a cost per bullet issue?


How many types of bullets does the military use? (I remember a history chanel special showing how the japanese during WWII were crippled by their wide variety of bullet needs)

[Nathan Zachary]

"Didn't "M" admonish James Bond for carrying a Beretta because it lacked stopping power? "

Not to mention that the clip keeps falling out too.

[1rudeboy]

Yes. M's assistant from Q branch said the department viewed 007's .25 cal. pistol as a "ladies' gun, sir."

Time to un-pimp your gun, sir. LOL

[n230099]

Dust off the ol'e 10mm and be done with the arguments.

[RKV]

Gunfighting rule #23 "Do not attend a gun fight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with a '4.'"
http://www.thegunzone.com/gunfighting.html

[Armedanddangerous]

I think it has to do with incidents of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan shooting bad guys with their berettas, loaded with pathetic 9mm full metal jacket ball ammunition, and having to follow up with five and six extra shots to make the bad guy dead.

[LibLieSlayer]

I own a couple... better than a .25 and about the same knockdown as a .38 Special. It is a backup caliber, but 007 was superhuman, so he didn't need more firepower! ;-)

LLS

[Armedanddangerous]

Naw..its a one-shot stopper issue.

[JeeperFreeper]

Dear TT,
I hope ypou are right. Replacing the .45 ACP with the 9mm was fixing a problem that didn't exist. My son has friends in Marine Force Recon. They have a smorgasbord of weapons to select and train with and carry into harm's way. None carry a 9mm.

[Armedanddangerous]

Yep, the SIG-226 in 40 caliber with the DAK trigger.

[FNG]

Breaking that rule did not hurt James Butler Hickock, but sitting at the wrong place on the card table did.

[thackney]

And there are glocks out there with external safeties. Iv'e seen photos of them.

ping for a Glock statement. Is this true? After market addition?

[Uri’el-2012]

The M1911 .45 caliber pistol that the 9mm Beretta replaced in 1985, was, as its nomenclature implied, an old design. There are several modern designs out there for .45 caliber pistols that are lighter, carry more ammo and are easier to maintain than the pre-World War I M1911 (which is actually about a century old, as a design). The Department of Defense planned to buy 645,000 JCPs. But now, the troops are being told to keep their 9mm Berettas, and all the complaints they have about those weapons.

Does no one remember September 11, 2001 when America was attacked by Islamic terrorists?

In 1898 the U.S Armed Forces carried .38 revolver

.38 caliber is .357

9 mm is .355

During the Spanish-American war the .38 caliber proved insufficient to stop Islamic terrorists in the Philippines

.45 caliber ACP was chosen, Browning designed a sidearm to stop Islamic Terrorists.

It seems that DoD has forgotten one hundred years of history.

The 1911 pistol may be 100 years old, but stopping Islamic Terrorists has remained the same.

OBTW; Think of this question : is Islamic Terrorist redundant ?

[Recon Dad]

The Mark 23 is by Heckler&Koch, not US either.

[struwwelpeter]

Ridiculous.

The sidearm has a neglible contribution to a platoon's fire power. What the DoD needs to do is come up with a real rifle and squad MG before worrying about handguns.

Those who NEED sidearms (Special Operations) are authotized to procure whatever they wish anyway.

[ArrogantBustard]

is Islamic Terrorist redundant ?

Yes. There have, from time to time, been Communist terrorists, National Socialist terrorists, and various terrorists involved with nationalist movements that are/were not particularly ideological.

[ArrogantBustard]

I guess I should say "No, it's not redundant. There have been &c"

[Recon Dad]

I feel the same way. Very recently I was told that various .45's were being tested. Glocks were one of the pistols being tested. I will be very surprised if this turns out to be the final word on this issue.