Posted on 09/20/2006 12:34:51 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
Republican gubernatorial candidate Dick DeVos says Michigan's science curriculum should include a discussion about intelligent design.
He says including intelligent design along with evolution would help students discern the facts among different theories.
"I would like to see the ideas of intelligent design — that many scientists are now suggesting is a very viable alternative theory — that that theory and others that would be considered credible would expose our students to more ideas, not less," DeVos told The Associated Press this week during an interview on education.
Intelligent design's proponents hold that living organisms are so complex they must have been created by a higher force rather than evolving from more primitive forms. Some want science teachers to teach that Darwin's theory of evolution is not a fact and has gaps.
However, a federal judge in December barred the school system in Dover, Pa., from teaching intelligent design alongside evolution in high school biology classes. The judge said that intelligent design is religion masquerading as science, and that teaching it alongside evolution violates the separation of church and state. [Kitzmiller et al. v Dover Area School District et al.]
Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm has said that Michigan schools need to teach the established theory of evolution in science classes and not include intelligent design, but can explore intelligent design in a current events or a comparative religions class.
The State Board of Education last week postponed adopting new science curriculum guidelines until state lawmakers get more time to weigh in on what the state's public schools science curriculum should be and how it should approach the teaching of evolution.
NONE, eh? Can you please explain to me how these facts (just for instance) are not evidence of evolution?
To summarize the link: some of the main evidence that (the single) human chromosome 2 is a fusion of (the separate) chromosomes 2p and 2q as found in chimpanzees and other apes.
For example remains of telomeres (specialized sequences at the ends of chromosomes) are found in the middle of human chromosome 2 exactly were they would have to be if ape chromosomes 2p and 2q had fused, and with sequences details that uniquely match a head-to-head telomere fusion. Furthermore the working centromere (a crucial structure which allows the chromosomes to be properly sorted during cell division) on human chromosome 2 is in the same place as the centromere on chimpanzee chromosome 2p AND there is a centromere remnant in human chromosome 2 in the same place as the working centromere on chimpanzee chromosome 2q. The detailed banding pattern of human chromosome 2 matches that of chimpanzee chromosomes 2p and 2q laid end to end. Etc.
YIKES! On the positive side that probably scared all the Jehova's Witnesses right out of the neighborhood.
Evolution doesn't claim to address those, so your questions are irrelevant to this discussion. Evolution has to do with change in organisms over time.
Definitely agree that Devos should have better things to talk about.
Huh? What happened? Did the mods go off duty or something? Why didn't this news thread get moved the Religion Backroom?
Agree both your points.
It's probably under consideration.
Having lived next door to an Amway dealer and across the street from a Scientologist, I can see where you're coming from.
Wow -- heck of a neighborhood! ;)
It was in Huntington Beach, CA, in 1970. The Scientologist kept pretty much to himself (except he'd ask me if I was interested in being "cleared" every now and then), but the Amway dealer was aggressive. She advocated drinking one of the cleaning products to "clean me out." I thought being cleared and cleaned by the neighbors would be an interesting experience, but I never took either one up on it.
>>People in Michigan are leaving IN DROVES.<<
No we aren't. We can't sell our d@mn houses TO leave. If we could, 3/4 of us would be outta here.
Been to Dearborn or Hamtramck lately?
Why is this Republican governor shooting himself in the foot with this issue? The current governor is bad enough that he doesn't need the ID issue to stir the conservative Christian base. Dumb political move.
These threads have the same pattern (unless they get moved to f-Religion [which I don't think will happen again]).
CR/Ider's show up and start saying "there is NO evidence of Evolution! 'Darwinism' is a religion! Etc.
Then those of us armed with both facts and argumentation show up. The CR/Iders do a few half-hearted "and so is your Mama" posts and the drunk ones fire off complete insults. Then they all run away.
Right Dave? You have promised to get back to threads where you have been CRUSHED like prov813man here, and yet, we never hear from you again until you start another thread where you run the same stuff which has been DESTROYED on other threads (like the so-called "global flood," the tired, silly and disingenuous "elephants can't evolve into humans" sort of "arguments."
So we won't be hearing back from prov813man (who is clearly new to these threads else he wouldn't put his cheeks out the car window).
ps: we have made SOME progress. No one has tried the stupid "747 from a junkyard" gambit in quite some time. So we need to mark our scorecard with whatever small wins we can.
And I still maintain my niceosity (IMHO). Willful ignorance: The Moonbat Movement of the Right. :(
I think this is a typically "drive-by" L.S.M.'s attempt to drive a wedge on this issue!??!
Dick deVos was partly raised in the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church and they certainly do NOT teach anything but Creation!!!
We got a bunch of so called FReepers rooting for the "ass-naut" cadet and super-liberal bill nelson here in Fla. instead of Ms. Kathrine Harris!!!
Amusing. Amway and the Discovery "intelligent design" use the same type of pyramid scams. Amway had a product (over priced) and ID has no product, just a promise to send believers to heaven.
How is a pyramid defined???
Haven't they been doing that for a long time now???
Funny, I don't feel crushed. Must have to do with my disconnect with "reality".
First I did not identify myself with any particular group {"cr/id er"??} I simply stated that evolution had not been proven and was therefore based on "faith" and had similar characteristics to other "religions". To Wit: I have posted here on and off for over 5 years and never drawn the withering fire I have on this thread. Not unlike what happens when other religions are questioned.
My lack of response to every single comment that has been posted to me here is a function of realizing nothing can be said to change hearts and minds on such strongly held "beliefs", (example: when I queried whether one had read "Godless" I got back, in essence, "I read a review, therefore decided it would not be useful".}
With that level of critical thinking, along with being mis-characterized both as to label and outcome, I must humbly "apologize for all my shortcomings", and withdraw.
Mostly it's fun here..Sometimes it's like DU.
Incidentally, I don't think this is a thread about religion. It's a thread about freedom of thought and inquiry. I don't personally believe that belief in the Creator (intelligent designer) and evolution are mutually exclusive. If, in fact, evolution were ever to be proven it would give greater, not lesser, validity to the designer.
As my biology teacher in HS ('66) put it: "to create something is marvelous, to create something which improves on itself is Divine.
The noun is "disconnection." But I appreciate your reappearance to support your position.
First I did not identify myself with any particular group {"cr/id er"??} I simply stated that evolution had not been proven and was therefore based on "faith" and had similar characteristics to other "religions". To Wit: I have posted here on and off for over 5 years and never drawn the withering fire I have on this thread. Not unlike what happens when other religions are questioned.
Please define "proven" (actually: 'proved'). There are NO theories that have been proved. I would be interested to see what you think constitutes a "proved theory." (helpful hint: it doesn't exist).
My lack of response to every single comment that has been posted to me here is a function of realizing nothing can be said to change hearts and minds on such strongly held "beliefs", (example: when I queried whether one had read "Godless" I got back, in essence, "I read a review, therefore decided it would not be useful".}
So, do you worry about the "hearts and minds" of the followers of "Astronomy?" And "Physics?" And "Gravity?"
If you make assertions and then defend them as contentions you need more than rhetoric to make it stick.
With that level of critical thinking, along with being mis-characterized both as to label and outcome, I must humbly "apologize for all my shortcomings", and withdraw.
Cut and Run. The moniker "critical thinking" is code for "science bashing."
Mostly it's fun here..Sometimes it's like DU.
Yes -- we have our Moonbats who make Conservatives look like freaking idiots. Sadly, these are the anti-science CR/Iders who refute science.
Incidentally, I don't think this is a thread about religion. It's a thread about freedom of thought and inquiry. I don't personally believe that belief in the Creator (intelligent designer) and evolution are mutually exclusive. If, in fact, evolution were ever to be proven it would give greater, not lesser, validity to the designer.
This is not about a Designer who sits outside of the Universe (which many of us believe in). This is not about "freedom of thought" (as nice as that meaningless term may be). This is about applying proper science to a massive amount of data. "Just 'cause" isn't "freedom of thought." It is just weak thinking.
As my biology teacher in HS ('66) put it: "to create something is marvelous, to create something which improves on itself is Divine.
I am the biggest supporter of an Awesome God on these threads. I also credit Him with giving us the ability to differentiate, discern and reason. I think that throwing that back in His face due to willful ignorance is one of the greatest sins Man can commit.
Thanks for the ping!
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