THe Secular Right

Real Clear Politics ^ | Aug. 29, 2006 | Robert Trascinski

[headsonpikes]

We all know the basic alternatives that form the familiar "spectrum" of American politics and culture.

If a young person is turned off by religion or attracted by the achievements of science, and he wants to embrace a secular outlook, he is told--by both sides of the debate--that his place is with the collectivists and social subjectivists of the left. On the other hand, if he admires the free market and wants America to have a bold, independent national defense, then he is told--again, by both sides--that his natural home is with the religious right.

But what if all of this is terribly wrong? What if it's possible to hold some of the key convictions associated with the right, being pro-free-market and supporting the war, and even to do so more strongly and consistently than most on the right--but still to be secular? What if it's possible to reject the socialism subjectivism of the left and believe in the importance of morality, but without believing in God? ....

[Little Ray]

Not a realistic option.
Lincoln put the Constitution on its deathbed, Wilson dug the grave, FDR filled it in, and the Federal Government been dancin' on it ever since.
Frankly, the poor thing wasn't too healthy when it was born...

Too many people have too many vested interests in the gub'mint the way it is now. At least 75% of the government's spending is un-Constitutional. Can you imagine the screaming when folks' favorite programs start being shut down? (I'd enjoy it, but I don't think it will happen...)

[PatrickHenry]

I didn't know that you could total the options in an either-or expression.

[js1138]

Shhhhhh...

[VadeRetro]

18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Off topic, but this being is clearly not omniscient or omnipresent. I suspect other verses tell a different story.

[tacticalogic]

Not a realistic option.
Lincoln put the Constitution on its deathbed, Wilson dug the grave, FDR filled it in, and the Federal Government been dancin' on it ever since. Frankly, the poor thing wasn't too healthy when it was born...

Too many people have too many vested interests in the gub'mint the way it is now. At least 75% of the government's spending is un-Constitutional. Can you imagine the screaming when folks' favorite programs start being shut down? (I'd enjoy it, but I don't think it will happen...)

I don't share that opinion, and I'll take issue with anyone who tries to treat it as fact, either in theory or in practice.

[PatrickHenry]

He's illustrating the value of the "Were you there?" method of scientific analysis.

[Mamzelle]

Very, very old joke. And you've demonstrated my point--it's not that the RR is persecuting the seculars, it's that the seculars can't handle their own distaste for people who believe differently from them. Trouble is--libertarians aren't real energetic (unless they're arguing for legalizing pot) and the RR are hardworking in the grassroots department.

If you did manage to chase off the RR from the GOP, it'd be the "progressives" who'd mop up, not the poor, weak 'tarians.

And you wouldn't want the "progressives" to benefit politically, now, would you?

[Liberal Classic]

There are a great many people who are unobservant, and yet they are moral, support the troops, believe in free enterprise, etc. I believe it is in the benefit modern conservatism for the Republican party to establish itself as the big tent and welcome these people with open arms, instead of calling them freeloaders and snobs like we have seen in this thread.

[Little Ray]

Go for it. Its your money and your time. If ya ever look like you're succeedin' I'll jump aboard. But I don't expect to see it short of the good guys winning a shooting-type civil war.

[wireman]

Who defines what is right and what is wrong in a world with no God?

The same people who made up the god?

[RadioAstronomer]

Who defines what is right and what is wrong in a world with no God?

Society.

IMHO, all of our laws, morality, and societal interaction evolved right alongside mankind as he evolved. This also includes tool-making, language, cultivation, etc.

We placed a convenient label on it and called it God. Also you may have noticed our concept of a deity and what that deity can and or will do has evolved as well over the millennia.

[Protagoras]

Rational self-interest.

So the nonbelievers think that right and wrong is defined by whatever they think is in their own self interest? That's interesting.

So killing someone to take their money in my own self interest is moral if I think so.

Kinda what I figured they thought.

Maybe I would get different answers at different times from different non believers.

[Junior]

Please note "rational self interest" does not equate to "selfishness." The ultimate definition of rational self interest would be the Golden Rule (which, by the way, is so self-evident it has been arrived at independently by numerous societies).

[Protagoras]

The same people who made up the god?

Do you think that's what is supposed to happen?

But a question like that, in answer to a legitimate question, basically admits that the reader doesn't have the answer.

[King Prout]

well done.

[Protagoras]

"Who defines what is right and what is wrong in a world with no God?"

Society.

So, depending on what society you live in, slavery for example, or killing jews, or killing Chinese, or killing Indians is good or bad? But not universially one or the other?

[js1138]

Who defines what is right and what is wrong in a world with no God?

Interesting question. Do you believe it is morally acceptable to burn the eyes of your house cat with a cigarette? Is there any specific prohibition of cruelty to animals in the Bible?

[tacticalogic]

Go for it. Its your money and your time. If ya ever look like you're succeedin' I'll jump aboard. But I don't expect to see it short of the good guys winning a shooting-type civil war.

Then you shouldn't mind if I start with you.

[PatrickHenry]

Basic morality is a simple thing. Suppose it's true that you evolved from some primordial blob, without any Divine action at all. Okay, you're on your own. You have only your own intelligence to guide you. You're looking for a place to settle down. The places you might move to have signs outside their gates, telling you their rules. One place says: "Murder is okay with us!" Another says: "Welcome, and we'll rape your women!" Yet another says: "No private property here. We'll take all your stuff!"

How much divine guidance does it require for you to decide to avoid those places, in favor of another that posts a sign saying the opposite?

[Protagoras]

In the Islamic mind, cutting the heads off of non-muslims is not only not bad, it is good. It is their society's morality, so, it's moral, correct? It's not wrong, it's right.