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THe Secular Right
Real Clear Politics ^ | Aug. 29, 2006 | Robert Trascinski

Posted on 08/29/2006 6:51:14 AM PDT by headsonpikes

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To: wireman
As opposed to some of the holier-than-thou a-holes around here.

I'm guessing you don't even understand the concept of holiness.

Of course, I'm not naming any names.

Why not? Calling people a-holes without the courage to name them to their faces?

341 posted on 08/29/2006 7:41:25 PM PDT by Protagoras (Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas)
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To: Protagoras

well, unlike you, I favor empiricism, so, yes, I do know where I stand.


342 posted on 08/29/2006 7:41:47 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: Coyoteman

Robert A. Heinlein, noted science fiction writer and authority on the definition of sin.


343 posted on 08/29/2006 7:46:37 PM PDT by Protagoras (Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas)
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To: King Prout
You and I are certainly not alike.

Your experiences are not a religion I ascribe to.

344 posted on 08/29/2006 7:51:15 PM PDT by Protagoras (Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas)
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To: Protagoras
Robert A. Heinlein, noted science fiction writer and authority on the definition of sin.

He certainly was ahead of some folks (including some here on FR).

He was adamantly opposed to slavery.


Do you have any objection to what I quoted other than that he wrote science fiction?

345 posted on 08/29/2006 7:52:48 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Evolution is real, deal with it!)
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To: Coyoteman
My objection has nothing to do with what he was recognized for, only what he wasn't.

Robert Heinlein is no more an authority on what is sin and what isn't than you or I.

I have nothing against him whatsoever.

346 posted on 08/29/2006 8:01:44 PM PDT by Protagoras (Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas)
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To: Protagoras
Robert Heinlein is no more an authority on what is sin and what isn't than you or I.

His comments regarding slavery directly contradict those in the Bible.

What is your opinion on this?

347 posted on 08/29/2006 8:06:40 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Evolution is real, deal with it!)
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To: RadioAstronomer; Protagoras; SirJohnBarleycorn
You are wrong here. Believe me when I say an Atheist can distinguish right from wrong,...

Morality and all of its associated ideals are rooted entirely in the presupposition some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior.

But, since we are all properly obeying the * modern interpretation * of the First Amendment, good & evil isn't the question... Good & bad, right & wrong, etc., etc., ad nausea; are all inherently religious ideals.

The modern interpretation of the First Amendment (according to the liberaltarians) says government must exorcise all traces of religion and theism from itself. Therefore, government must never consider issues of morality and right and wrong...

So, it becomes a question of benefits versus costs. Fetus killing has its benefits to society, especially if you like to sleep late on Saturdays. But it also has its costs as well. Society (by which I mean, whoever manages to seize power) needs to evaluate these costs and decide accordingly.

The mythical rights of men and women are also meaningless. The very concept of rights is also founded in religion. Since the enlightened person is freed from any superstitions about some "God," they are free from having to worry about "rights." Only raw power counts and humans are just meat puppets for the powerful...

I am not an ecumenical atheist, nor am I an orthodox atheist - - THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS!

348 posted on 08/29/2006 8:17:40 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Coyoteman
I don't know what he said and I don't know what passage from the bible you say he disagrees with.

I would add an aside however, I have seen lots of people put their own interpretations on what they say bible says on any number of subjects.

In studying the bible myself, I have run across countless passages that turn out not to mean anything like what I originally thought they meant.

349 posted on 08/29/2006 8:18:32 PM PDT by Protagoras (Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
The modern interpretation of the First Amendment (according to the liberaltarians) says government must exorcise all traces of religion and theism from itself.

Unclear who you are attributing this so called interpretation to.

350 posted on 08/29/2006 8:20:53 PM PDT by Protagoras (Lay down with dogs, get up with fleas)
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To: headsonpikes

What about devout christians who are secular when it comes to government because, while we enjoy the majority culture now (that being judeo-christian), there will come a time in America when we won't. And why would we want to set precedents that could later be used against us?

I would say I am a devout Christian secular rightist.


351 posted on 08/29/2006 8:20:55 PM PDT by Julliardsux
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To: Protagoras
I don't know what he [Heinlein] said and I don't know what passage from the bible you say he disagrees with.

Heinlein was adamantly opposed to slavery. Check Time Enough for Love (1973).

352 posted on 08/29/2006 8:26:06 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Evolution is real, deal with it!)
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To: Coyoteman
Heinlein was adamantly opposed to slavery.

Was he also fervently in favor of anarchy? What was his opinion of employers having employees? Would he consider this "slavery," too?

IMO the conservative ideal recognizes proper authority. On what basis does a secular conservative arrive at any concept of authority other than his own feelings and opinions?

353 posted on 08/29/2006 8:31:09 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Julliardsux; headsonpikes
Morality and all of its associated ideals are rooted entirely in the presupposition some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior.

But, since we are all properly obeying the * modern interpretation * of the First Amendment, good & evil isn't the question... Good & bad, right & wrong, etc., etc., ad nausea; are all inherently religious ideals.

The modern interpretation of the First Amendment (according to the liberaltarians) says government must exorcise all traces of religion and theism from itself. Therefore, government must never consider issues of morality and right and wrong...

So, it becomes a question of benefits versus costs. Fetus killing has its benefits to society, especially if you like to sleep late on Saturdays. But it also has its costs as well. Society (by which I mean, whoever manages to seize power) needs to evaluate these costs and decide accordingly.

The mythical rights of men and women are also meaningless. The very concept of rights is also founded in religion. Since the enlightened person is freed from any superstitions about some "God," they are free from having to worry about "rights." Only raw power counts and humans are just meat puppets for the powerful...

It is no coincidence Islamic pagans hate Israel, Jews, Christians and Western Civilization. The entire basis of Western Civilization is Mosaic Law, something both the Neo-Pagan Left and the pagan Islamic thugs cannot abide and wish to destroy.

The very idea that human beings have individual rights not subject to the whims of an earthly monarch, but subject to the laws of Yahweh, is directly from Moses.

Historically, this is proven over and over again with the successive conflicts between the forces of paganism and the Judaic culture. (This includes the idolatry of cultural Marxist paganism.)

A greater number of "atheists" and "pagans" adopt the same hackneyed tenets of a faux Judaic-Christian ideal (golden calf). They also subscribe to the Judaic fetishism of "sin," but will fight to their death in denial of it. Most of them are so wrapped up in their own polemics that they have become nothing more than pathetic anti-Christians with the same false hypocritical philosophy.

They just slap a new label on it hoping nobody will notice - - they replace the idea of "avoiding sin" with "morals."

Morality and all of its associated ideals are rooted entirely in the presupposition some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior.

Today, "morals" are a religious pagan philosophy of esoteric hobgoblins. Transfiguration is a pantheon of fantasies as the medium of infinitization. Others get derision for having an unwavering Judaic belief in Yahweh or Yeshua, although their critics and enemies will evangelize insertion of phantasmagoric fetishisms into secular law.

Mosaic Law (of which the Ten Commandments is just a part) is the foundation of Western Civilization.

Genesis is the primary focus of the Declaration of Independence, from where our Constitutional rights are derived. The Ten Commandments are the foundation of our judicial system.

No man may become a law unto himself under the guise of freedom of religion.

Some of these liberal-tarians forget, it is THEY who advocate “separation of church and state.” Let's cram it right back down their throats...

It was landmark U.S. Supreme Court precedent Reynolds v. United States in 1878 that made “separation of church and state” a dubiously legitimate point of case law, but more importantly; it confirmed the Constitutionality in statutory regulation of marriage practices.

Now, it ain't so palatable to them, is it? They are the ones here bashing the religious folks, now they want to claim some mercurial, ever changing definition of freedom of religion? I'm not going to live in their hell...

If I cannot yell “fire” in a crowded theater, I don't think someone should be able to light one with a U.S. flag and call it “free speech.”

Of course, a lot of these traitors to the United States would also whine if we wanted an Amendment to ban homosexual marriage or flag burning, wouldn't they?

There are doctrinaire, myopic cultural Marxists whose only purpose here on FreeRepublic is their polemic need to do anything contrary to the Christians. You will find most of them on the homosexual issue threads, the evolution threads, drug threads, genetic engineering threads or any other issue involving a perversion of, or attack on the Judaic book of Genesis.

Some of the Bozos out there can't get past that word “God,” so they would just piss the entire country away and join the enemies of America; all because they have this polemic need to bash the Christians and do everything in contravention to them. I say screw them and the filthy practices they want to live by. My children are not going to inherit their squalor if I can help it.

Of course, what a lot of the leftists and misguided, myopic liberal-tarians don't want to admit is that Christianity (and they do hate Christians) is just their politically correct proxy for their war against what is written in the book of Genesis.

Watch how they will jump up and down and snivel about the Ten Commandments and Christians; but the reminders that Moses was not a Christian, that Genesis, Exodus and Deuteronomy are Jewish literature really sticks in their craw. It exposes them...

P.S. Ayn Rand was a Russian Jew...

354 posted on 08/29/2006 8:46:59 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

nice rant!


355 posted on 08/29/2006 8:51:39 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Protagoras

THE logic. It is not from any one person. If you wish to know where it came from, it came from God. But even if you don't believe in God, it still works.


356 posted on 08/29/2006 9:00:35 PM PDT by stands2reason (ANAGRAM for the day: Socialist twaddle == Tact is disallowed)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

"liberaltarians"

Aw, that's so cute. In the stead of argument, you have wordplay.


357 posted on 08/29/2006 9:05:25 PM PDT by Boxen (:3)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

"Morality and all of its associated ideals are rooted entirely in the presupposition some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior."

Over a hundred years ago, idealists, that is, those that thought that reality was fundamentally spiritual, easily outnumbered the dualists and materialists.

However, there was what David Stove (he the best thinker of the 20th century hands down, and a conservative) called the problem of product differentiation-- what is the difference between sandstone-thought-by-the-absolute and sandstone not so blessed?

The same point applies with morality. A person may have the virtues of temperance, frugality, industry, order, cleanliness, kindness and so forth "rooted in a higher power," whatever that may mean, and some people may merely have these virtues without the divine blessing. The virtuous are virtuous in anycase, so the importance of postulating a 'higher power' is superfluous to the concerns of worldly morality.

What you really is ethical relativism with a theological underpinning-- what is right is whatever commanded by a god. But this is counter-intuitive, given it is conceivable that a god can command an action that inappropriately violates ethical principles.


358 posted on 08/29/2006 9:10:40 PM PDT by JHBowden (Speaking truth to moonbat.)
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To: JHBowden

D'oh! Fill in the necessary words above where I typed ahead of myself.


359 posted on 08/29/2006 9:12:15 PM PDT by JHBowden (Speaking truth to moonbat.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew
I find it interesting (as well as downright irritating) the level of illiteracy concerning the Judaic roots in American culture, law and Constitutional freedoms.

From where are the rights enumerated in the U.S. Constitution derived?

"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,..."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

"We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions,..."

"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence,..."

Clue: They took a page right out of Mosaic Law...

360 posted on 08/29/2006 9:19:16 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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