Posted on 08/11/2006 6:36:37 AM PDT by Agent Smith
I ask my fellow freepers indulgence for this vanity, because I believe it is too important to be buried in the back of the forum.
Can a good Muslim be a good American? I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years.
The following is his reply:
Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.
Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)
Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).
Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.
Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.
Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and Destruction of America, the great Satan.
Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).
Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.
Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The Quran's 99 excellent names.
Therefore after much study and deliberation...perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The war is bigger than most Americans know or understand.
All "civilized because they live in America."
I have been following this thread with part horror, part sadness, and part frustration.
One thing we need to keep in mind here, is that there are reasons why "American Exceptionalism" is felt to be a valid concept by many Americans, Liberals notwithstanding.
If you believe in American Exceptionalism, you believe the United States of America is an exceptional country.
If you believe in that concept, you do not believe that all countries are equal. There are some Cultural Relativists who DO think that Somalia has its own qualities that demand that it be viewed on the same moral and cultural plane as our own country, the USA. Those people are seriously deluded.
When the discussion arises on how to deal with a situation where there are potentially people in our midst who may be a "Fifth Column" (and no...I am not talking about the media...) and may cause us harm, we have a special set of problems that few countries in the rest of the world must address.
We are, without a doubt, the most populous, culturally and racially diverse (yes, I destest what the word "diverse" has come to signify...I use it in its original meaning) country on the face of the earth.
When we see this type of situation arise in other countries, we fully expect them to round up, harass, deport, imprision, torture or kill anyone they see who is even remotely associated with the problematic portion of the population. We expect this, and are not surprised by it. But this is NOT the way WE would do it. It is why we view ourselves and this great country as exceptional.
Even though another country may conquer their neighbor in a war, take over their country, kill, enslave or otherwise oppress them, we are not surprised. We expect this, and are not surprised by it. But this is NOT the way WE would do it. It is why we view ourselves and this great country as exceptional.
We are better than this. We ARE. Much of the rest of the world knows it, but will not admit it. But WE know it in our hearts. It is why there are many of us who think that we CAN spread our way of thinking to other parts of the world, why many think it is not only part of our national destiny to do so, it is our duty as human beings to do so.
This outlook is eloquently and beautifully described in books like Dinesh Desousa's "What's So Great About America?" and Natan Sharansky's "The Case For Democracy:The Power of Freedom to Overcome Tyranny and Terror".
If we take over a country like Iraq, flatten the cities, bend the people to our will and kill those who resist so we can take their oil for our own, then we are no longer The United States of America.
If we demolish mosques, deport, harass, imprison or kill people because of their appearance or religion, then we are no longer the United States of America.
As I said in an earlier post...if a nuclear device is set off in an American city killing hundreds of thousands or millions of us, things will change, we will stop being America (or at least as we know it) and will be forced to do so by events. If that is the road we will travel, I will travel it, but only if forced to do so, or if my death amongst the thousands or millions forces others to do so.
When military people say they are willing to lay their life on the line for America, it is the America we know, not the America of internment camps and torture for those who suffer simply because they look different.
Being American means something more than where you were born or what religion you were raised in. As Dinesh Desousa says in his book, people think nothing of coming to America and becoming "Americans". But there is nearly nowhere else on earth where you can do the reverse. If you went to India, became a legal citizen and called yourself an Indian, people there would be baffled. To them, that would be the same as a man severing his genitals and calling himself a woman. He can call himself whatever he wants, but he is still a man.
The point is, we all look different to each other, it is what is in the heart that makes us American. And it is what makes our problem so thorny. One cannot see into the hearts of others. We can only make our impressions on the actions of others. But that is one of the things that makes being an American so great.
There is no moral equivalence between the conquering of pagan and satanic religions in South and Central America with the conquering of peaceful Christian Africa by the Mohammedans.
The abuse of natives by the fortune-seeking Conquistadors is well known, but less well known is the work of the Church to protect the rights of the natives, in the wake of the Conquistadors:
As a result of this, little is known outside the Hispanic world about some Spaniards, notably the priest Bartolomé de Las Casas, who defended Native Americans against the abuses of conquistadores. In 1542, Bartolomé de las Casas published A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies (Brevísima relación de la destrucción de las Indias). His account is largely responsible for the passage of the new Spanish colonial laws known as the New Laws of 1542, which was used in an attempt to protect the rights of native inhabitants (the governor and men sent to enforce them were killed by rebellious conquistadores). These New Laws of 1542 stablished a really early -if compared to British or French colonies- abolishment of native slavery.
I feel for you. I think a good muslim can be a good American. However, I'm not even going to bother saying that because I've got things to do like making stuffed cabbage!
bttt
Well said. Thank you.
No. Never. Not ever.
Of course not. I also wouldn't allow the bombing of mosques or synagogues by "Christian" dirtbags either.
Extreme Christian Scientists won't allow medical treatment for their chidren, and courts continually step in and overrule these parents.
The notion of home grown traitors is not new, and the mere fact that they may be citizens does NOT mean that they are OFF LIMITS from the scrutiny of our society. I know that this may upset the bedwetters at the NY Times, but that is the fact of the matter.
"Once again you frame the issue incorrectly."
No, I asked you a direct question that has everything to do with the issue, whether you choose to address it or not. So again, I'll ask you, what crime have they committed?
It is not a crime to be Muslim, or follow someone blindly, or even to criticize the President (surprise!). So again, what crime has been committed?
Are you equating American Muslims who have committed no crimes with these criminals?
Either that or strip them of their citizenship and deport them.
(putting on my flame-proof suit)
The war is bigger than most Americans know or understand.
Because we haven't been hit hard enough. The only thing that will wake us up is another hit here when maybe 10 to 20,000 are killed. The U.S. will have to be shocked into action before attention will focused on personal survival rather than the results of American Idol.
The notion of home grown traitors is not new, and the mere fact that they may be citizens does NOT mean that they are OFF LIMITS from the scrutiny of our society.
Of course not. Most criminals in our country are "home grown."
But simply being a Muslim does not make them traitors.
The people who are traitors deserve whatever they get. But the simple fact of being a Muslim does not equate to treason. I think that's where you and I differ.
Internment camps/reeducation camps.
Either that or strip them of their citizenship and deport them.
(putting on my flame-proof suit)
You'll need it, when you torch the Constitution like that....
Reeducation camps??? C'mon! Everyone wake up and get back down to Earth. We fought wars to END things like RE-EDUCATION camps.
But don't you know? It's okay to adopt communist tactics as long as you ain't some dadgummed commie yourself.
/s
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