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Truly Inconvenient Truths: "What we’re loath to talk about when we talk about Israel and Lebanon."
New York Magazine ^ | 08/07/06 | Kurt Andersen

Posted on 08/06/2006 2:27:37 PM PDT by dangerfield

Al Gore’s movie about global warming has a brilliant title: It flatters us—those of us who believe the scientific consensus about climate change—that we are clear-eyed and honest and brave enough to admit this “inconvenient truth” that the Bush administration and its reckless, craven, venal corporate allies refuse to admit. Yet the truth about greenhouse gases, although plenty scary, is really not so inconvenient: The blame for inaction is easy to lay on others, a solution seems possible, and that solution doesn’t look that onerous.

Whereas concerning the Middle East, there is for most of us no obvious overriding analysis, let alone fix. Concerning Israel and the Palestinian territories, all the truths tend to be truly, deeply, tragically inconvenient.

And the big one is this: Israel is a good and miraculous nation that deserves the support of civilized people, but the great unfortunate fact about its creation—being carved by the U.N. out of Arab land in 1947—cannot be ignored or wished away. We have no choice but to support Israel, even though the Israeli Defense Forces are killing civilians, dozens a day, in Lebanon. All of those deaths, one wants to believe, are unintentional, unavoidable mistakes. Yet as Richard Cohen wrote in his Washington Post column last week, “Israel itself is a mistake . . . an honest mistake, a well-intentioned mistake, a mistake for which no one is culpable [but which] has produced a century of warfare and terrorism of the sort we are seeing now.” Sixty years on, there can be no revising or reversing that mistake—and when the choice is Israel versus unaccommodating Islamist fanatics, we must be for Israel. Is there any more inconvenient truth?

(Excerpt) Read more at newyorkmetro.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 2006israelwar; israel; usantisemitism
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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To: dangerfield
"And the big one is this: Israel is a good and miraculous nation that deserves the support of civilized people, but the great unfortunate fact about its creation—being carved by the U.N. out of Arab land in 1947—cannot be ignored or wished away."

What makes the land Israel is on "Arab land"? I'm curious. Jews have lived on this land for what 5000 years? The land had been part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries. When the Ottoman Empire broke up do to being on the losing side of WWI, the land was run by the British under a League of Nations mandate. The UN took over for the League of Nations in 1945, continued the mandate and affirmed the creation of the State of Israel alongside several Arab states. Today, about one million Arabs live in the Israel with more freedom and security than in any of the Arab states. They've shown no interest is going elsewhere.

Logically, I just don't get this "Arab land" point.

21 posted on 08/06/2006 4:36:58 PM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (Jabba the Hutt's bigger, meaner, uglier brother.)
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Israel wasn't created, except by Israelis. And it isn't "Arab land".


22 posted on 08/06/2006 7:45:22 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, July 27, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: dangerfield
but the great unfortunate fact about its creation—being carved by the U.N. out of Arab land in 1947

This is of course not true. The Jews were there well before 1947. They were also in what is now called the West Bank. The Zionists bought the land they occupied, they did not steal it from anyone. Some Muslims left at the behest of the surrounding Arab countries, when they attacked the newly independent nation of Israel, promising them the property of the Jews, after the latter were pushed into the sea by the Arab armies. Didn't work out that way.

The UN did not create Israel in 1947, the Israelis created it, the UN recognized it, and stopped the Israelis from getting more of the land they were entitled to under previous agreements. (i.e., the West Bank)

23 posted on 08/06/2006 7:50:05 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: dangerfield
How many other countries have been created out of whole cloth since WW1, with rivaling populations? Only Israel remains a controversy, it seems.

Your point is well taken.

For example, the liberals certainly didn't wince when the Clinton administration started carving an Islamic Kosovo out of Christian Serbia -- by force of arms, no less.

24 posted on 08/06/2006 8:07:10 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: donmeaker
It was from those League of Nations, and later UN Sanctioned administrations, that Jordan, and Israel were created.

Nobody on the left -- or in the Muslim world -- wants to admit it. But there is no question the Jews have "clear title" to what is Israel. And the Arabs don't.

25 posted on 08/06/2006 8:12:24 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: donmeaker

If the Arabs were 'given' back 'their' land they would turn present day Israel into an urban desert in under ten years...then they would be killing each other for the goats and the camel dung.


26 posted on 08/06/2006 8:30:47 PM PDT by dogcaller
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To: dangerfield

History is bunk.

27 posted on 08/06/2006 8:35:38 PM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (NYT Headline: 'Protocols of the Learned Elders of CBS: Fake But Accurate, Experts Say.')
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

an excellent quick, short history lesson for those deprived of such knowledge by our modern education system (the NEA)----thanks


28 posted on 08/06/2006 8:38:28 PM PDT by cmotormac44
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel.

also Keywords 2006israelwar or WOT [War on Terror]

----------------------------

29 posted on 08/07/2006 5:10:06 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn't do!)
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To: dangerfield
Thus says the Lord God of Israel

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into YOUR OWN LAND.
30 posted on 08/07/2006 5:23:41 AM PDT by Esther Ruth (Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep. The LORD is thy keeper!)
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To: dangerfield
Jews Zionists settled a barren depopulated land. The Muslim "holy mosques" in Jerusalem were severely neglected. Arabs also immigrated when they saw this increased economic activity created by the Jews

50% of Israelis came from Arab nations where they treated like crap by the Muslims. It's very unfair to call Israel an extension of Europe. And if anyone knows imperialism and colonialism it's the Arab Muslims. Their history is full of subjugation and conquest. Muhammad and his successors conquered North Africa, Persia and beyond as they spread Islam by the sword.

Muhammad fought 68 wars of conquest in his lifetime

31 posted on 08/07/2006 5:47:22 AM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok)
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To: dennisw
 

WARS OF ISLAM


Chronology of early Islam

     Notice how closely Islam's inception is associated with war. From 623 to 777, a span of 154 years, there are 83 military conflicts involving the Muslims...and that is just what I have recorded here.  Is Islam a religion of peace?  Muslims tell me it is.  But....

  • 570 - Birth of Muhammad in Mecca into the tribe of Quraish.
  • 577 - Muhammad's mother dies
  • 580 - Death of Abdul Muttalib, Muhammad's grandfather.
  • 583 - First journey to Syria with a trading Caravan
  • 595 - Muhammad marries Khadijah a rich widow several years older than him.
  • 595 - Second journey to Syra
  • 598 - His son, Qasim, is born
  • 600 - His daughter, Zainab, is born
  • 603 - His daughter, Um-e-Kalthum, is born
  • 604 - His daughter, Ruqayya, is born
  • 605 - Placement of Black Stone in Ka'aba.
  • 605 - His daughter, Fatima, is born
  • 610 - Mohammed, in a cave on Mt. Hira, hears the angel Gabriel tell him that 
             Allah is the only true God.
  • 613 - Muhammad's first public preaching of Islam at Mt. Hira.  Gets few converts.
  • 615 - Muslims persecuted by the Quraish.
  • 619 - Marries Sau'da and Aisha
  • 620 - Institution of five daily prayers
  • 622 - Muhammad immigrates from Mecca to Medina, which was then called Yathrib, gets
             more converts.
  • 623 - Battle of Waddan
  • 623 - Battle of Safwan 
  • 623 - Battle of Dul-'Ashir
  • 624 - Muhammad and converts begin raids on caravans to fund the movement. 
  • 624 - Zakat becomes mandatory
  • 624 - Battle of Badr 
  • 624 - Battle of Bani Salim 
  • 624 - Battle of Eid-ul-Fitr and Zakat-ul-Fitr 
  • 624 - Battle of Bani Qainuqa' 
  • 624 - Battle of Sawiq 
  • 624 - Battle of Ghatfan 
  • 624 - Battle of Bahran
  • 625 - Battle of Uhud.  70 Muslims are killed.
  • 625 - Battle of Humra-ul-Asad 
  • 625 - Battle of Banu Nudair 
  • 625 - Battle of Dhatur-Riqa
  • 626 - Battle of Badru-Ukhra 
  • 626 - Battle of Dumatul-Jandal 
  • 626 - Battle of Banu Mustalaq Nikah
  • 627 - Battle of the Trench
  • 627 - Battle of Ahzab 
  • 627 - Battle of Bani Quraiza 
  • 627 - Battle of Bani Lahyan 
  • 627 - Battle of Ghaiba 
  • 627 - Battle of Khaibar
  • 628 - Muhammad signs treaty with Quraish. 
  • 630 - Muhammad conquers Mecca.  
  • 630 - Battle of Hunsin. 
  • 630 - Battle of Tabuk
  • 632 - Muhammad dies.
  • 632 - Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father-in-law, along with Umar, begin a military move to
             enforce Islam in Arabia.
  • 633 - Battle at Oman
  • 633 - Battle at Hadramaut. 
  • 633 - Battle of Kazima
  • 633 - Battle of Walaja
  • 633 - Battle of Ulleis
  • 633 - Battle of Anbar
  • 634 - Battle of Basra, 
  • 634 - Battle of Damascus
  • 634 - Battle of Ajnadin. 
  • 634 - Death of Hadrat Abu Bakr. Hadrat Umar Farooq becomes the Caliph. 
  • 634 - Battle of Namaraq
  • 634 - Battle of Saqatia.
  • 635 - Battle of Bridge. 
  • 635 - Battle of Buwaib. 
  • 635 - Conquest of Damascus. 
  • 635 - Battle of Fahl.
  • 636 - Battle of Yermuk. 
  • 636 - Battle of Qadsiyia. 
  • 636 - Conquest of Madain.
  • 637 - Battle of Jalula.
  • 638 - Battle of Yarmouk.  
  • 638 - The Muslims defeat the Romans and enter Jerusalem.  
  • 638 - Conquest of Jazirah.
  • 639 - Conquest of Khuizistan and movement into Egypt.
  • 641 - Battle of Nihawand
  • 642 - Battle of Rayy in Persia
  • 643 - Conquest of Azarbaijan
  • 644 - Conquest of Fars
  • 644 - Conquest of Kharan. 
  • 644 - Umar is murdered.  Othman becomes the Caliph.
  • 647 - Conquest of the island of Cypress
  • 644 - Uman dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman.
  • 648 - Campaign against the Byzantines.
  • 651 - Naval battle against the Byzantines.
  • 654 - Islam spreads into North Africa
  • 656 - Uthman is murdered.  Ali become Caliph.
  • 658 - Battle of Nahrawan.
  • 659 - Conquest of Egypt
  • 661 - Ali is murdered.
  • 662 - Egypt falls to Islam rule.
  • 666 - Sicily is attacked by Muslims
  • 677 - Siege of Constantinople
  • 687 - Battle of Kufa
  • 691 - Battle of Deir ul Jaliq
  • 700 - Sufism takes root as a sect of Islam
  • 700 - Military campaigns in North Africa
  • 702 - Battle of Deir ul Jamira
  • 711 - Muslims invade Gibraltar
  • 711 - Conquest of Spain
  • 713 - Conquest of Multan
  • 716 - Invasion of Constantinople
  • 732 - Battle of Tours in France.
  • 740 - Battle of the Nobles.
  • 741 - Battle of Bagdoura in North Africa
  • 744 - Battle of Ain al Jurr.
  • 746 - Battle of Rupar Thutha
  • 748 - Battle of Rayy.
  • 749 - Battle of lsfahan
  • 749 - Battle of Nihawand
  • 750 - Battle of Zab
  • 772 - Battle of Janbi in North Africa
  • 777 - Battle of Saragossa in Spain
     References:  
  • Miller, William M., A Christian's Response to Islam, Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing, Phillipsburg, New Jersey, 1976.
  • Geisler, Norman, Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Baker Books, 1999.
  • Glasse, Cyril, The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, Harper & Row, Publishers, Inc. San Francisco, 1989.
  • Morey, Robert, The Islamic Invasion, Harvest House Publishers, Eugene Oregon, 1992.

 


WARS OF ISLAM

.570 CE: Early Islam - Born in Mecca, Muhammad is the founder of Islam, which has profound influence on Africa, India, western Asia and Europe. He is considered by Muslims to be God's last and greatest prophet. The Koran (Qur'an), 114 chapters of Muhammad's divinely inspired revelations, is the Islamic scripture, which resembles Judaism and Christianity -- two religions that largely influence Muhammad. These three religions are the world's only monotheistic faiths.

610 CE: Early Islam - Originally adhering to a polytheistic notion of the divine, Muhammad has a religious experience that changes not only his life, but the history of a large part of the world. He hears a divine voice, later believed to be the angel Gabriel of the Christian religion, tell him that Allah is the only god. He receives further instructions to adopt the name of "Prophet" and convert the Quaraish to accept the monotheism.

622 CE: Early Islam - The Quaraishs resist the new religion. Muhammad and his small band of followers migrate to the town of Yathrib in the north, which is open to his new faith. The Hijrah of 622, the migration, marks the beginning of the Muslim era. After making himself ruler, Muhammad changes the name of the town to Medina ("city of the Prophet"), and Medina becomes the seat of the caliphate.

630 CE: Early Islam - Muhammad and his followers overtake Mecca. With the Quaraish in submission, the Kabah, the central place of worship for Arabian tribes, becomes the main shrine of Islam.

632 CE: Early Islam - With the death of Muhammad, his father-in-law, Abu-Bakr, and Umar devise a system in which Islam can sustain religious and political stability. Accepting the name of caliph ("deputy of the Prophet"), Abu-Bakr begins a military exhibition to enforce the caliph's authority over Arabian followers of Muhammad. He thereafter moves northward overtaking Byzantine and Persian forces. Abu-Bakr dies two years following his succession of Muhammad. Umar succeeds him as the second caliph and begins a campaign against the neighboring empires.

637 CE: Early Islam - The Arabs occupy the Persian capital of Ctesiphon. By 651, the entire Persian realm is under the rule of Islam as it continues its westward expansion.

638 CE: Early Islam - The Romans are defeated at the Battle of Yarmouk and the Muslims enter Palestine. Before entering Jerusalem, Caliph Umar forms a covenant with the Jews, pledging protection of their religious freedom. The Muslims continue their conquest of Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, which is completed in 641 CE.

641 CE: Early Islam - Islam spreads into Egypt. The Catholic Archbishop invites the Muslims to help free Egypt from Roman oppressors. This exemplifies the alliances formed between Muslims, Christians and Jews due to the Muslims' establishment of religious freedom for Christians and Jews. Muslim conquest is based on liberation, rather than subjugation, of conquered peoples. Egypt, Persia and the Fertile Crescent are ruled by the four "Righteous Caliphs" until 662 CE.

644 CE: Early Islam - Umar dies and is succeeded by Caliph Uthman, a member of the Umayyad family which rejected Muhammad's prophesies. Rallies arise to establish Ali, Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law, as caliph.

654 CE: Early Islam - Islam spreads into all of North Africa.

656 CE: Early Islam - Caliph Uthman is murdered, and Ali becomes the new caliph.

661 CE: Early Islam - Not satisfied with Ali, Uthman's followers murder Ali. One of Uthman's relations takes the title of caliph, and Damascus replaces Medina for the seat of the caliphate. The Umayyad family rules Islam until 750. Ali's followers form a religious party called Shiites and insist that only descendants of Ali deserve the title of caliph or deserve any authority over Muslims. The opposing party, the Sunnites, insist on the customs of the historical evolution of the caliphate rather than a hereditary descent of spiritual authority.

662 CE: Early Islam - Egypt falls under the control of the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates until 868 CE. A year prior, the Fertile Crescent and Persia yield to the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates, whose reigns last until 1258 CE and 820 CE, respectively.

669 CE: Early Islam - The Muslim conquest reaches to Morocco in North Africa. The region is open to the rule of the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates until 800 CE.

700 CE: Early Islam - The beginning of the eighth century sees the rise of Islamic mysticism. Known as Sufism, this tradition is marked by the individual's effort to establish an intimate relationship with Allah. One of the most critical passages of the Koran for Sufis is verse 7:172 which describes the covenant between God and the individual's soul before the creation of the universe. Renunciation is more than a rejection of the material realm; its objective is a level of freedom that promotes harmony with one's physical life, resulting in mystical union.

710 CE: Early Islam - Tariq ibn Malik crosses the straight separating Africa and Europe with a group of Muslims and enters Spain. A year later, 7000 Muslim men invade Gibraltar. Almost the entire Iberian peninsula is under Islamic control by 718 CE.

711 CE: Early Islam - With the further conquest of Egypt, Spain and North Africa, Islam includes all of the Persian empire and most of the old Roman world under Islamic rule.

711 CE: Early Islam - Muslims begin the conquest of Sindh in Afghanistan. Until 962 CE, Afghanistan witnesses different regional rules, periodically controlled by the Umayyad and the Abbasid caliphates and other locally-based rulers.

717 CE: Early Islam - The Umayyads attempt to conquer the Byzantine capital and fail, resulting in the weakening of the Umayyad government.

732 CE: Early Islam - At the Battle of Poitiers, Islamic expansion is halted in France but continues into parts of Asia and Africa.

750 CE: Early Islam - The Abbasids overtake the rule of the Islamic world (except for Spain which falls under the rule of a descendant of the Umayyad family) and move the capital to Baghdad in Iraq. Their orientation resembles Persian absolutism. The Arabian Nights, a compilation of stories written under the reign of the Abbasids, is representative of the lifestyle and administration of this Persian influenced government. Abd al-Rahman of the Umayyad dynasty flees to Spain to escape the Abbasids and is responsible for the "Golden Caliphate" in Spain, the greatest Islamic civilization yet known.

768 CE: Early Islam - Formerly passed down as an oral record, the history of Muhammad is first recorded by the historian Ishaq ibn Yasar.

786 CE: Early Islam - Caliph Harun al-Rashid, a major figure in the Arabian Nights, rules until 809 CE.

789 CE: Early Islam - With the Idrisid dynasty of Morocco, which lasts until 985 CE, local rulers begin to control North Africa.

800 CE: Early Islam - North Africa falls under the rule of the Aghlabi dynasty of Tunis, which lasts until 909 CE.

819 CE: Early Islam - Persian unity begins to disintegrate with the Samanid rulers in Northern Persia, whose rule in this region lasts until 1055 CE. One year later, the Tharid dynasty begins to control Khorastan (lasting until 874 CE), and in 864 CE, the Alid dynasty begins rule over Tabaristan (lasting until 1032 CE).

827 CE: Early Islam - Aghlabi rulers of Tunis begin conquests of Sicily which last until 878 CE.

857 CE: Early Islam - Sufi Al-Muhasibi introduces the study of conscience into Sufism.

865 CE: Early Islam - Rhazes discovers the difference between measles and smallpox. He is considered the greatest physician of medieval times. Rhazes dies in 925 CE.

868 CE: Early Islam - The Sattarid dynasty, whose rule continues until 930 CE, extends control throughout most of Persia. In Egypt, the Abbasid and Umayyad caliphates are ended and rule turns to Egyptian-based control with the beginning of the Tulunid dynasty (lasting until 904 CE).

877 CE: Early Islam - Syria and different sects of Lebanon are ruled periodically by the Tulunid, the Ikhidid, the Fatimid and the Ayyubid dynasties of Egypt until 1250 CE.

879 CE: Early Islam - The Seljuk Empire unites Mesopotamia and a large portion of Persia.

900 CE: Early Islam - The Fatimids of Egypt overtake north Africa and include the territory as an extension of Egypt until 972 CE.

909 CE: Early Islam - Sicily falls under the control of the Fatimids' united rule of North Africa and Egypt until 1071 CE. From 878 until 909 CE, the rule of Sicily is uncertain.

935 CE: Early Islam - Until 969 CE, the rule of Egypt is under the Ikhidid dynasty.

945 CE: Early Islam - A Shiite band invades Baghdad, and the Abbasid Empire becomes a powerless symbol of unity and legitimate government to the Muslim community. Until the sixteenth century, rule of Islamic civilization is decentralized and different sects are ruled by different rulers.

950 CE: Early Islam - Al-Farabi, the greatest of the faylasufs (Arabic for philosopher), lives most of his life in Baghdad and teaches that the enlightened individual could perfect his life through philosophy without being corrupted by the common beliefs of the public.

962 CE: Early Islam - Afghanistan is stabilized by the rule of the Ghaznavid dynasty which lasts until 1186 CE.

972 CE: Early Islam - North Africa is under the control of the Zayri rulers in Tunis. Their control lasts until 1148 CE, much longer than the Aghlabi rulers were able to sustain control.

969 CE: Early Islam - The Fatimid dynasty assumes the title of caliphate in Egypt until 1171 CE.

997 CE: Early Islam - Mahmud, ruler of a Turkish dynasty in Gujarat, conducts seventeen raids into northwestern India before his death in 1030. He is named the "Sword of Islam."

1037 CE: Early Islam - Avicenna, a faylasufs in the east, teaches a rationalistic philosophy which borders Sufi mysticism. Also a physician, Avicenna discovers that disease can be spread through the contamination of water and that tuberculosis is contagious. Among his medical writings, the Canon is accepted as authoritative until the late seventeenth century.

1037 CE: Early Islam - A region of Persia, Azerbajjan, falls under the rule of the Sajid dynasty. Azerbajjan is periodically ruled by different rulers from the end of the Seljuk Empire until 1502.

1056 CE: Early Islam - The Al-Moravi rulers of Morocco begin control over North Africa (lasting until 1147 CE).

1077 CE: Early Islam - The Seljuk, a Turkish dynasty, disrupts political and social structures formed by the Abbasids. The Seljuks extend their control over most of the Arab and Persian regions.

1100 CE: Early Islam - Islamic rule is weakened due to power struggles among Islamic leaders and the Christian crusades.

1100 CE: Early Islam - Afghanistan falls under the control of Ghorid rulers until 1215 CE.

1123 CE: Early Islam - The greatest of the Islamic poets is a Persian named Umar Khayyam. His poem The Rubaiyat is most popular in the West due to its use by Victorian Edward Fitzgerald.

1126 CE: Early Islam - In Spain, the Aristotelian Averroes of Cordova is the last important Islamic philosopher. He supports the official faith in public and is an extreme rationalist outside of the public realm. He dies in 1198 CE.

1130 CE: Early Islam - Until 1269, the Al-Mohad dynasty rules North Africa.

1168 CE: Early Islam - The Ayyubid dynasty rules Egypt until 1250 CE.

1187 CE: Early Islam - Muslim general Salah al-Kin al-Ayyubi, in Egypt, ends the Christian crusades.

1228 CE: Early Islam - The Haisi rulers of Tunis in North Africa assume control.

1248 CE: Early Islam - Muslim control of Spain is reduced to the Kingdom of Granada, which survives for more than two centuries more.

1251 CE: Early Islam - The last of the Egyptian-based dynasties, the Mamluk dynasty takes the caliphate until 1517 when Egypt falls under the control of the Ottoman Turkish Empire.

1258 CE: Early Islam - The Abbasid period is completely ended with the destruction of Baghdad by the Mongols.

1327 CE: Early Islam - With the disintegration of the Seljuk Empire, the Arab and Persian regions are fragmented into several military kingdoms until 1500. The Ottoman Turkish Empire establishes its capital at Bursa.

1453 CE: Early Islam - The Ottomans defeat the Byzantine Empire and continue expanding into the Balkans. The Ottoman Turkish Empire moves its capital from Bursa to Istanbul (Constantinople). After 1500, the Moguls (1526-1857 CE) and the Safavids (1520-1736 CE) follow the military example set by the Ottomans and create two new empires.

1492 CE: Early Islam - Ferdinand of Aragon and Isabella of Castile, later benefactors of Christopher Columbus, end Muslim rule in Spain.


32 posted on 08/07/2006 5:51:20 AM PDT by dennisw (Confucius say man who go through turnstile sideways going to Bangkok)
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To: dangerfield

Where is the BARF alert?


33 posted on 08/07/2006 8:41:25 AM PDT by Alouette (Psalms of the Day: 69-71)
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To: 1st-P-In-The-Pod; A_Conservative_in_Cambridge; af_vet_rr; agrace; albyjimc2; Alexander Rubin; ...

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel/Russian Jewry ping list.

Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.

34 posted on 08/07/2006 8:46:53 AM PDT by Alouette (Psalms of the Day: 69-71)
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To: dangerfield; Esther Ruth; Alouette; SJackson
"the great unfortunate fact about its creation—being carved by the U.N. out of Arab land"

Memo to "mister" Andersen: Crack open a Bible some time and have a good long read. The Jews were in that land at it was theirs long, long, long before the Arabs and when islam was merely a gleam in satan's eye. Oh, and "mister" Andersen, the Lord God Almighty declared in the Bible that it was His land that He promised to Abraham and his descendants through Isaac and Jacob (not Ishmael and Esau). As far as Israel being a "controversy" "mister" Andersen, you might want to note when you read that Bible that the Lord Almighty Himself seems to have quite a bit of controversy with nations and people with your mindset.
35 posted on 08/07/2006 9:02:07 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (The Arab League jihad continues on like a fart in an elevator - FR American in Israel)
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To: dangerfield; All

The land in question is Jewish land and the idiot author would do well to read the history of the region (pre-1900s). I quit reading this garbage about a third of the way into it.


36 posted on 08/07/2006 9:34:14 AM PDT by unionblue83 (Duty is ours; consequences are God's. -- Stonewall Jackson.)
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To: dangerfield

The only mistake was to think that muzzies would accept a prosperous and democratic country in their midst as an example of how backward their own culture is. Can't have their own people WANTing things, now, can we?


37 posted on 08/07/2006 10:00:14 AM PDT by AmericanChef
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To: Restorer
Good morning.
"Actually, the Syrian regime is controlled by Shi'ites. A splinter group that even other Shi'ites consider weird."

I've always thought that the regime in Syria was Baathist, the last Baathist regime, and that the Baathists were more secular and nationalistic than religious.

When it comes to Islam, I've always thought they are closer to Sunni than Shia, but not as religious as either groups.

Michael Frazier
38 posted on 08/07/2006 10:02:09 AM PDT by brazzaville (no surrender no retreat, well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville

The Syrian regime is not explicitly religious or sectarian, just as Saddam's wasn't.

However, as with Saddam's regime, most political power is held by members of a minority group. In Iraq these were the Sunnis.

In Syria they are the Alawites, a Shi'ite group that believes Ali was actually an incarnation of God. Given the general Muslim belief that God never was incarnated and that Mohammed was the last prophet it is not surprising that other Muslims consider them heretics.


39 posted on 08/07/2006 10:35:53 AM PDT by Restorer
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To: dangerfield
being carved by the U.N. out of Arab land in 1947— The turks of the Ottoman empire owned much of the land mass called Palestine. Turks are not Arabs. Arab states were also carved by the U.N. out of Ottoman empire land. Once the Ottoman empire ceased to exist the various land masses were distributed to those already living on or near it, a huge huge majority going to Arabs. Why is it that only Israel's creation on land they owned already a mistake? By the way...The created state of Israel was comprised of land on which the majority was Jewish owned (legally bought and paid for). She acquired additional land only after Arab initiated wars failed to push the Jews into the sea. The U.N. resolution 242 doesn't mention "Palestinians" once, rightfully so because there were no Palestinians at the time, only Arabs and Arab states. The U.N. resolution makes no demand that "all" the territory be given up to anyone. It simply calls for negotiations between the parties (Palestinians not mentioned) for secure and recognized borders. It follows that there can be no peace if some Arab states and entities refuse to recognize Israel's borders or even it's existence. Calling the creation of Israel a mistake because Arabs want all the land is logic open to question in my view. By accommodating these Arab tantrums we're only fueling further conflict whose base is made up of hatred and intollerance. The creation of Israel was one of the truly great things the U.N. has ever done. How sad that so many in the west seek to undo this great deed in order to appease and accommodate the rabid and illogical temper tantrums of Arabs unwilling to allow legal landowners to form a state of their own, a state that is a tiny tiny fraction of the land given to Arabs.
40 posted on 08/07/2006 10:42:53 AM PDT by Joan Kerrey
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