Are These the End Times? (Newsweek Interviews Tim LaHaye)

Newsweek ^ | August 2, 2006 | Brian Braker

[rightwingintelligentsia]

When Tim LaHaye talks, the faithful listen—by the millions. The conservative Protestant minister is the coauthor of the wildly popular apocalyptic “Left Behind” novels. The controversial books, which have sold more than 60 million copies, depict the biblical end of the world: the Christian eschatology of the upheaval that precedes the second coming of Jesus Christ, known also as “end times.” LaHaye recently spoke with NEWSWEEK’s Brian Braiker about why he believes the events currently unfolding in the Middle East reflect biblical prophesy.

[Iscool]

Many scholars believe that the prophesy addressed both issues separately. That is to say that one part of the prophesy addressed the end times and the other addressed the destruction of the temple. Note that Christ told them that not one single stone would be unturned, and the Roman general that destroyed the Temple did indeed destroy not only the building, but destroyed the entire foundation and had it plowed up so that no stone literally remained unturned.

Ya, everybody's a scholar now days...

Some of those foundation stones were pretty big...Did the 'scholars' say how many John Deeres it took to flip over those rocks???

Could be a nuclear bomb may be able do the same thing, in this generation....

I hate to break it you people, but the majority of the adult males in 1948 when Israel was formed are either dead or well on their way. Only the very youngest would still be alive, and they would be in their upper 70s by now. If we take Christ's prophesy to mean that the generation alive when Israel became a nation again would live to see the Day of the Lord,

I hate to break it to you but the verse says, "This generation shall not perish before the event happens"...That means only one needs to be alive...

then the Bible is dangerously close to being forsworn. Now, we all know that God does not lie. The logical conclusion of all this is that, perhaps, the fig leaf spoken of in the prophesy does not, in fact, represent Israel.

OR, the main event is on the doorstep with the key in the lock...

Let's not forget that someone way back then changed the calendar by a few years...

Israel's at war...And all of the muzlim countries are lining up against Israel...One muzlim country has nuclear weapons...Another is pursuing nuclear weapons...Some muzlim country believes their messiah (which is likely to be our anti-christ) is due back...But it will take a massive war to launch this devil's return...Every muzlim in the world is cheering on the destruction of Israel...Not to mention many non-muzlim countries...

And curiously, the bible says some folks will be blinded to this eminent return of Jesus while some folks will know the times and seasons...

Now if you've been blinded to this, it would stand to reason that you wouldn't believe that I'm not...Something to think about...

[Iscool]

As I understand it, not a single scholar has been able to determine what 'days will be shortened' means...The way I look at scripture is that if something hasn't been revealed to anyone, it doesn't concern us...It will be revealed to the right people at the right time...

But for me, less hours in a day would mean the earth would have to spin faster...I hope this isn't the case...I have enough trouble standing on my own two feet as it is...

[JamesP81]

But for me, less hours in a day would mean the earth would have to spin faster...I hope this isn't the case...I have enough trouble standing on my own two feet as it is...

Actually, standing would be easier. A higher angular velocity of the Earth would reduce the effect of the Earth's gravity on you.

[JamesP81]

And curiously, the bible says some folks will be blinded to this eminent return of Jesus while some folks will know the times and seasons...

Right. You do realize that a natural consequence of my beliefs is that the end could literally come at any moment, with little or no warning? You see, in your worldview you think the end event is at hand, probably in a few short years. In mine, it could happen before the sun sets this very day; an eventuality that I am prepared for. I fail to see how one could count that as blindness.

[wmfights]

"The logical conclusion of all this is that, perhaps, the fig leaf spoken of in the prophesy does not, in fact, represent Israel."
__________________________________

Those professing faith in JESUS have become the new Israel?
If so what of the promise made to the descendent's of Jacob (renamed Israel by GOD)?

[JamesP81]

Those professing faith in JESUS have become the new Israel? If so what of the promise made to the descendent's of Jacob (renamed Israel by GOD)?

I never said I had all the answers. I don't. But neither does anyone else who goes around claiming that they do. The best of course of action is to have your soul prepared for the end to occur at any moment.

[wmfights]

"The best of course of action is to have your soul prepared for the end to occur at any moment."
____________________________

I concur.

[what's up]

You say nonsense...but then you don't post a rational reason why you disagree.

This is quite typical for many dispensationalists who go by emotion rather than reason.

[sasha123]

I disagree in the teaching that Christians represent Israel. I feel God has made it abundantly clear he is speaking about a particular place. But, that is how I feel and I am sure everyone can pull scriptures to try and prove their own view on a topic.

Time is a mystery with God, a generation to the Lord may not mean what a generation means to us.

Ezk & Dan and many scriptures talk about Israel being taken into war by different nations, not to mention Mediggo mentioned as a particular place.

[JamesP81]

I disagree in the teaching that Christians represent Israel.

Personally, I do to. I can't put my finger on anything in the Bible that ever says God will not honor his promise to the Jewish people.

[Just mythoughts]

Matthew 24:6

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled:

for all these things must come to pass, but the *end* is not yet.

Matthew 26:7 Quoting Isaiah 19:2

Matthew 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for *MY name's sake.

Matthew 24:10 And the shall many be offended, (quoting Isaiah 8:15) and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

NOT talking about anyone but *Christians* here as that is the subject.

Matthew 24:12 And because *iniquity* =(lawlessness, and who is the 'lawlessness one?) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Who are Christians suppose to LOVE first and foremost?

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the *END* the same shall be save.

Sure doesn't sound like salvation is about going anywhere but rather enduring to the *END*.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see *the abomination of desolation,* spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Daniel is the place where that number of days or the length of tribulation is given.

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:

Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

This all speaks to time and if one does not have time to even get ones own clothes then time of events is addressed.

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

We all know already what Christ said about the *little children* so this can be only a spiritual analogy about spiritual relationship with someone other than Christ and really gets down to what the deception is about as Christ is called the *bridegroom* of the *church* spiritually speaking.

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be (happen) not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Again reference to time.

Matthew 24:21 For then *shall be great tribulation, such as was not since beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.*

Daniel 12:1 is quoted and it is Daniel where the amount of time is derived.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

There is absolutely nothing here from Christ's own mouth that His church is going anywhere to escape the tribulation.
We are told that the *war and rumors of wars* are events that would take place and yet they are listed separate from what is called the *great tribulation*.

In Mark's account of the sign(s) that foretell of the return of Christ he records Christ saying

Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

I cannot find Christ in any of these signs saying anything about His Church going anyplace before He returns. It sure seems if Christ says He has foretold all things that removal of His church would be a paramount bit of information.

[Quix]

This is quite typical for many dispensationalists who go by emotion rather than reason.
= = = = = = =

As a shrink,

I strongly assert that the most intense emotions, the most emotionally irrationally screamed assertions with the most emotionally assaultive wording, tones and attitudes have come from

drum roll . . . .

those hostile to our dispensational perspective.

What a surprise. Not.

[what's up]

I was responding to a poster who did not post a logical rebuttal to me although I was looking forward to a reasoned answer....he merely stated something about nonsense.

Thus, I have to assume he/she responded simply out of emotion. This one comes from the dispensationalist side. So it appears that your "strongly asserted" opinion is wrong in this case.

[Quix]

I've been wrong before.

Very likely to be wrong again.

Confession, repentance, forgiveness, Grace . . . Wonderful things.

[what's up]

Confession, repentance, forgiveness, Grace . . . Wonderful things.

True...but in this case I would settle for some logic.

[Quix]

Enjoy the quest for logic.

Not sure such threads are a great hunting ground for solid reasons and the like . . . least-wise . . . not on all sides.

It's often difficult for me to even imagine how some Scriptures get mangled into some conclusions presented hereon. But, inventive human nature abounds so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.

[what's up]

Enjoy the quest for logic.

Thanks, but I was just searching for a logical answer to the specific question I posed to one individual, not logic in general.

[Quix]

Not sure what the odds would be in that case. LOL.

[Quix]

I think that volcanic ash or debris kicked up from a meteor crash of size could also result in longer hours of darkness and therefore "shorter days" in one sense.

I suppose a dramatic pole shift and faster spin would work. Perhaps a sufficiently large meteor and/or quake at key angles and places could increase spin significantly. But that would probably be the least of our concerns if a meteor or quake were that big.

We shall see.

Thanks.

[JockoManning]

Found this on Bill Somers' end times website.

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‘Twas The Night Before Martyrdom

Bryan Hupperts





'Twas the night before martyrdom, and all through my cell I spoke to the prisoners of heaven and hell; Some would be hung, others shot without care, Our lone hope was Jesus who would always be there;



Trapped in colds cells without any beds, With visions of rifles taking aim at our heads; The guards were all cruel, they’d give us a slap, And warned us, “Get ready for a long, long dirt nap,”



Out on the courtyard is where brave saints were slaughtered, For they would not deny Him, come hell or high water. The guards would take aim, give a shout, then a flash! Another suffering saint would be free, free at last.



We were hunted wherever: land, sea, rain and snow The New Order vowed that we Christians must go, We were waiting to be raptured. Christ did not appear, Still, some choose to be faithful, and not give into fear.



Our country was conquered; it happened so quick, We hoped it was somehow a horrible trick. More rapid than buzzards the soldiers they came, Hunting and killing those called by His name.



"Now Christians, renounce your God. You will live! You’ll find the New Order is quick to forgive! Make a choice, now decide, it’s us or the wall Where we’ll blast away, blast away, blast away all!"



And then it was my turn to face the tribunal It was less of a hearing and more of a funeral. I drew in my breath, getting ready to speak, When a boldness like fire burned in my cheeks.”



I stand here before you accused of no crime, Though bloodied and beaten and covered in grime; With a bundle of scars that you’ve whipped on my back, I have no defense against your attacks.”



”My eyes have grown dim, but my faith burns like flame! I’m honored to suffer, to share in His shame! Your state is your god; it will pass. They all do, Then who can you pray to? I do pity you.”



"You came as invaders, but God brought you here To learn about Jesus, so be of good cheer; For all of your power to kill and to slay, You can only transform men back into clay.”



“God started with clay, and gave life to our race, And I laugh. In a moment, I’ll be free of this place. ”They cursed me and threw a hood on my head, And I worshiped aloud - I had nothing to dread.



They spoke not a word, but went straight to their work, For faith makes the faithless go madly berserk, And laying their fingers on their weapons of death, I inhaled deeply for one final breath.



”I have run my course, I have finished my face, And I have no fear to look on His face! And now I proclaim Him – my soul’s deep delight, My friends, do not weep. I bid you good-night!"


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Bryan Hupperts © 2003
www.SheepTrax.com
http://www.sheeptrax.injesus.com



Legal Stuff: Copyright © 2003 Bryan Hupperts. Permission to distribute this material via email, or individual copies, is automatically granted on the condition it will be used for non-commercial purposes and will not be sold.



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