Are These the End Times? (Newsweek Interviews Tim LaHaye)

Newsweek ^ | August 2, 2006 | Brian Braker

[rightwingintelligentsia]

When Tim LaHaye talks, the faithful listen—by the millions. The conservative Protestant minister is the coauthor of the wildly popular apocalyptic “Left Behind” novels. The controversial books, which have sold more than 60 million copies, depict the biblical end of the world: the Christian eschatology of the upheaval that precedes the second coming of Jesus Christ, known also as “end times.” LaHaye recently spoke with NEWSWEEK’s Brian Braiker about why he believes the events currently unfolding in the Middle East reflect biblical prophesy.

[webstersII]

All the NT writers believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime. This is apparent in many places where they use words such as "soon" or "at hand". If you say they were wrong about the timing then most other things they said would be suspect. Fortunately they were correct.

In Daniel's vision he was told to "seal up the prophecy, for its time is not yet." 450+ years later, John's Revelation has a last admonition "do not seal up the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand." The date of the writing of Revelation is of much debate but some scholars put it as early as A.D. 64, shortly before the seige of Jerusalem by the Roman army. The Christians had already left Jerusalem by the time the Romans surrounded the city, as they had been told to "flee to the mountains" so they were not there when the prophesied tribulations took place in Jerusalem.

Also:

Item 1 was fulfilled during the time of the Apostles (although late in this period). Paul said that they had preached the gospel to all creation. Apparently he is referring to the known creation of that time, i.e., the known world. In Acts the apostles were termed "those who have turned the world upside down". In Romans Paul told the church in Rome that "your faith is spken of throughout the whole world".

Item 2 - the conversion of the Jews - has nothing specifically to do with eschatological timelines.

Item 3 - return of Enoch and Elijah - v. 17:12 says that Elijah had already come at the time of the writing of the book. I assume Sirach is in the Apocrypha, which I am not familiar with.

Item 4 - the apostasy - this passage in 2 Th. was fulfilled during the siege of Jerusalem (A.D. 67-70) when the Temple was desecrated by a man who proclaimed that he was God.

Item 5 - The term "Antichrist" never refers to one person. Ref: 1 John 2:18, 2:22, and 4:3. Nowhere is there a tie between 2 Th 2:3 with the passages in 1 John, in fact the passages can't tie together because 1 John refers to numerous "Antichrists" and 2 Thess. refers to a man.

Item 6 - The Extraordinary Perturbations of Nature - meaningless, as there are no more recorded earthquakes and other disasters today except in Algore's mind. Also, there are still many wars and rumors of wars today, so the idea of the end coming during a time of peace can't apply to current events. The Pax Romana of the first century would have been a time of peace when it would have been appropriate to look for the End Times.

Item 7 - These passages are subject to interpretation, but if interpreted in keeping with the rest of Scripture, then they are not literal, but figurative. For example, the famous passage in Acts about "the sky shall be darkened and the moon turned to blood" is also found in Joel 2:31. This is familiar poetic language which applied to eariler OT prophecies and would be familiar to the first-century Christians and students of the OT.

Item 8 - The Trumpet sound was a familiar reference which occurs many times in the OT. The people knew to gather for battle when the Trumpet sounded. In the OT the word was used in both a literal and a figurative sense. See also the next item.

Item 9 - Sign of the Son of Man - refers to Christ coming on the clouds of glory. In the OT the symbology of clouds is used to refer to God's appearance, such as Duet. 33:26, "There is none like the God of Jeshurun, who rides on the heaven to your help, and in His majesty on the clouds." This is used as a literal reference sometimes and a figurative one sometimes.

[Quix]

I don't know if you are aware of this Jan 05 prophecy about Lebanon or not. Marysecretary mentioned it on another thread:

I just read an Elijah List prophecy by Chuck Pierce: On January 29, 2005, the Lord suddenly said: Watch Lebanon! and Out of Damascus will come a new move of my spirit. This was sent on July 14th. It's worth reading. All this is prophetic and not to be feared. It's part of God's plan for the Middle East. Anyone who wants to read it should go to

www.elijahlist.com.

But beware of the rabid advertising. The list founder contends honestly that he's supporting many single mother households via such sales--which is fine. But I just think he goes way over the line with so much chronic IN YOUR FACE advertising so much even the PRINT ONLY pages are a mess.

But the prophecy clearly has come true with the current situation as far as Lebanon. Waiting on the Damascus part.

[Aquinasfan]

One should not confuse being dissolved with being annihilated.

Yup. Which reminds me of something that I was thinking about today.

I was thinking that it's within God's power to reduce to nothing (annihilate) that which He brought into being from nothing. But to actually do so would seem to contradict God's goodness and justice, since Scripture tells us that everything He created is good.

Does this conclusion necessarily follow?

[webstersII]

"Did Jesus predict a soon return? Did the Apostles expect a soon return?", have become grist for the skeptical and critical mill."

Absolutely the NT writers believed in a soon return. Correctly interpreted in keeping with the rest of the Bible, the NT prophecies are completely accurate, foretelling events which took place exactly as described.

"But I have corresponded with at least one person who has said that they were "losing their faith" over this very question, and I am sure others exist as well."

I know personally of one person who lost their faith for the same reason. That's too bad. Those people are being led astray by Lahaye and Lindsey and the like.

[what's up]

That might be important if you believe the "Israel" of the New Testament is literally the nation of Israel, but many Christians see it as representing the entire body of Christian believers--the "new Israel" with whom God has made a new covenant.

You are exactly correct. Paul is adamant that believers in Christ are the true Israel.

Also the so-called "rapture" is a false theology built up around one verse in Thessalonians which is misinterpreted.

[Aquinasfan]

I love the term "Completed Jew"

Then you might enjoy this book.

[ShadowAce]

But to actually do so would seem to contradict God's goodness and justice, since Scripture tells us that everything He created is good.

Does this conclusion necessarily follow?

Personally, I don't think so. Here's why--Everything He created is good. Why? Because He says it is. However, what if He decides that destruction of His creation is also good? After all--He did destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, the Canaanites, etc. Granted--in those examples, He was destroying that whach had fallen, but the concept remains the same. What is "good" upon creation, may not remain "good" throughout history, thus requiring its destruction.

This degradation is (obviously) due to the Fall, but it still exists.

[what's up]

So the Lord raises up 144,000 Jewish witnesses and he names the tribes that they come from.

The belief in a literal 144,000 sounds an awful lot like the Jehovah's witnesses (Michael Jackson's religion).

I've never gone for LeHaye, but I'm surprised that he even he believes this.

[kimmie7]

hmmmm. I may. We'll just drop it in the ole cart and try it out! I'd been needing something to boost me to free shipping.

Thanks!

[kimmie7]

Not Jehovah's witnesses...........

[kimmie7]

Not Jehovah's Witnesses (the organized religion) but Jehovah's witnesses.....witnesses for Jehovah.

[what's up]

Whoever believes it is a wacky interpretation and I'm surprised LeHaye admits to it.

[American in Israel]

Christ told us what to look for when he returns, read Mathew 24 and Luke 18.

What you need to do is compare your history book to the Bible, say Isaiah 14 or Ezekiel 35-36. Both are stunningly accurate descriptions of Modern Israel's history.

While you are at it, read Revelations Chapter Six, study the seals and see how far you can get...

Blessings!

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

Jesus will return soon.

BETTER LOOK BUSY

[wideawake]

But look at the context.

I am indeed.

This entire passage from 1Cor discusses Paul's thesis that he is compelled to preach the Gospel - that it is not an avocation or a hobby that he's taken up just because it's a good thing to do, but because he is compelled to do it - it is an oikonomia a task, an order, a responsibility committed to him by God.

So he is saying that if he preaches willingly so much the better for him because the preaching of the Gospel is a reward in itself for the man who enjoys preaching the Gospel, yet even if he doesn't preach willingly it doesn't matter because he is under orders to do so whether he enjoys it or not.

You guys would be better of if you would just believe what you read...

Oh, I believe what I read in Scripture. Which is a little different from believing what you imagine the Scriptures to say.

Allow me to provide a translation directly from the Greek into modern American language:

"Because if I do this of my own will I get a reward, but if I don't do it of my own will I am still entrusted with the task."

As a student of Biblical Greek that is my own word-for-word translation of the Greek Textus Receptus.

[CindyDawg]

I bought the series and enjoyed reading them. It had nothing to do with fear though. That said, I think it is ok for us to think about this because it reminds us that someday He is returning and we need to be ready. Christ tells us that there will be wars and rumors of wars but the gospel must be published 1st. I don't know what all fits in here though. I do know that VIPS have no more idea of signs of when, than the people in the trenches that read their Bible. The Lord says only the Father knows. Any man that says otherwise is going against scripture.

[fish hawk]

What you mean is, YOU just don't know. Don't speak for all of us. For instance, from your statement, I know a lot more than you do.

[JamesP81]

Exactly, he should have lived in Europe from 1939 - 1945, or in Japan in 1945. That would have seem like the "end times".

I have a personal belief on that. The bible speaks of there being many antichrists and then it speaks of the Antichrist. Considering that satan is not equal with God, and therefore cannot know with perfect foreknowledge how things are going to occur the way God does, here's my idea: satan always has an antichrist, maybe even several. None of these antichrists, however, have succeeded in the fulfilling satan's worldly goals and thus is not the Antichrist, capital A. The enemy does not know which of his pet projects will succeed, so he keeps trying. God already has knowledge of this. I submit to you that Hitler was an antichrist. Look at the man and the things he did. He wanted to conquer the earth (one world government). He hated the Jews. He was charismatic and well liked by his people. In fact, some of the old former nazis still alive would tell you that his personal charisma was so strong that even now, knowing everything they know about him, they'd still do as he asked them to. That amount of power over people sounds otherworldly to me. This little antichrist, however, did not become the lawless one spoken of in the Bible because he was stopped before his evil could be realized.

What's the point of all this? The signs of the end times have always been with us, even from the 1st century AD. Because, frankly, satan has been trying to take Christ off His throne and place his lawless servant as the one master of this world and its people.

With all that said there is, however, one, and exactly one, concrete indicator that we are living fairly close to the end times. Israel is a nation again. Now, that doesn't leave us with a time frame for when the Day of the Lord will come. The only thing promised about Israel being a nation again is that God will not permit them to be destroyed before the Second Coming.

[Rutles4Ever]

Neither does the word automobile, but we drive one
Neither does the word shotgun, but we own one
Neither does the word hymnal, but we praise Him from one
Neither does the word Bible, but we believe it is His Word

Oh! Oh! I've got one! "SAC-RA-MENTS"

[JamesP81]

Someone else on this thread said they're "tired and want to go home" -- I can't agree with that sentiment more heartily!

I agree mostly, but there is one thing I have to say. I'm young, but I would like to undergo the experience of building a family. That has to be done here, as marriage is not given in heaven. So call me self-centered if you'd like, but I'm gonna be a little upset if I miss out on that entire section of life.