[Bikers4Bush]

Alternative means of generating power are also being found.

On the Ohio/West Virginia border they're building hydroelectric plants out of old mine shafts.

They line the shafts with smaller turbines and then run water down the sides generating power from top to bottom using gravity. They then use some of the electricity they create to pump the water back up continuing the process.

Nice stuff being developed these days.

If they miniaturize this sort of technology the same way the computer industry has one day you may be able to dig a narrow shaft next to every house and have it generate it's own electricity as well as heat.

[weegee]

While it could become a practical solution, it is not likely to happen if the Enrons and smart growthers have their say.

The corporate interests want their monthly cut and the smart growthers are against property rights. You must join the collective.

[CedarDave]

How do they accomplish that? There is only so much potential energy in water at elevation X+100 ft. That energy is dissipated descending to elevation X and must again be expended to pump the water back up again. Since generators are inefficient, it always takes more to pump back up than is generated coming down. Otherwise it would be a perpetual motion machine.

[SengirV]

So you are saying they have themselves a nice little(well, big in this case) perpetual motion machine on the Ohio/WV border. That's news to me.

[capt. norm]

They line the shafts with smaller turbines and then run water down the sides generating power from top to bottom using gravity. They then use some of the electricity they create to pump the water back up continuing the process.

That would not work. It takes MORE energy to pump water back to the top than you would get from it running down.

What you suggest would be a "something for nothing" situation which doesn't exist.

[6ppc]

They line the shafts with smaller turbines and then run water down the sides generating power from top to bottom using gravity. They then use some of the electricity they create to pump the water back up continuing the process.

You are describing a perpetual motion machine...won't work.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

"They line the shafts with smaller turbines and then run water down the sides generating power from top to bottom using gravity. They then use some of the electricity they create to pump the water back up continuing the process."

ROFLMAO

[HamiltonJay]

This is impossible... without there being more energy coming from somewhere... capturing the energy from the water flowing downhill cannot generate enough electricity to pump the water back uphill otherwise you have a perpetual motion machine...

[gleeaikin]

We will probably see many types of solution, probably like the birth of the auto industry 100 years ago, or the birth of the IT industry a few years ago.

I checked out the availability of E85. Some midwest states have a few dozen statons. Minnesota has over 200. Several midAtlantic states have about 3, none open to the public. Many newer cars are manufactured to be converted to E85 for no more than $200. E85 supports farmers and minimizes transportation costs by being used close to home. The distillation residues can be used as livestock feed.

Demand for solar panels is outrunning production. Nevertheless, all our states should allow net metering (the capacity to feed excess electricity back into the grid). Last I heard only 36 states had it. The industry is predicting major breakthroughs in panel production soon. A lot sooner than hydrogen technology.

A probable scenario for the future might be as follows: 1) increased use of hybrids. 2) Ramping up ethanol and biodiesel production and imports using corn, sugar cane and beets, oilseeds, etc. 3) Breakthroughs in cellulose/ethanol production and manufacturing. 4) Other kinds of breakthroughs, such as Bikers' comment. 5) eventually, hydrogen, maybe? Many of these developments will help farmers and smaller entrepreneurs. The big guys won't like it. Watch out for political sabotage and help fight it.

[norwaypinesavage]

"They line the shafts with smaller turbines and then run water down the sides generating power from top to bottom using gravity. They then use some of the electricity they create to pump the water back up continuing the process."

They have a name for this. It's called Perpetual Motion Machine. I can obtain shares in the company. Please send money.