IDF finds bodies of missing sailors aboard damaged Navy ship

Haaretz.com ^ | JUly 16, 2006 | Amos Harel

[mtbopfuyn]

Thanks for the update. I wondered at the time how pictures got on the internet so quickly.

[AdvisorB]

Jeff, thanks so much for your informed insights. I have learned a great deal from your analysis.

[SauronOfMordor]

It is really inexcusable, IMHO, that they were not active in such a combat zone.

Just as inexcusable that the machinegunner on the roof of the Marine barracks in Lebanon in 1983 did not have a round in the chamber.

The captain was more worried about being held responsible for a friendly-fire incident, than in the safety of his command

[Eastbound]

Thanks for the ping! Good report.

[AnnaZ]

Later in the thread I, and others, came to the realization that given the damage reported, those pics could not possibly be of the Saar 5, Spear, after it was hit.

So, what were those pictures of? And are there any pix from the actual hit ship?

[Jeff Head]

Exactly...and agreed. If the equipment and personnel are put in harm's way, then they have to be able to use all of the tools at their disposal to protect themselves and destroy the enemy.

[Jeff Head]

You are weclome. I believe this engagement is a critical one, not just in this conflict, but in modern sea warfare in general.

[Jeff Head]

They are pics, I believe, of an undamaged Saar 5, sailing. The confusion came in due to the stain marks near one of the aft dishcarge ports on the vessel. Those stains from the discharge, were confused for scrorch marks from battle damage...but they are not. I believe that is how it happened.

[AnnaZ]

Thanks.

[csvset]

It is really inexcusable, IMHO, that they were not active in such a combat zone.

Yeah, that's a big snafu.

I wonder if the ship was operating at what the US Navy calls General Quarters ?

[Army Air Corps]

Thanks for the post. I continue to be troubled about reports that the air-defense systems were not fully active.

[Thermalseeker]

It was feared that if the system was in operation, it would mistakenly identify friendly aircraft as enemy targets and engage them.

Huh? Have these guys not heard of "Friend or Foe"?

[Menehune56]

The missile, is a C-802 radar-guided anti-shipping missile manufactured in Iran using Chinese technology. Courtesy of the Clinton administration via Loral and Hughes?

[lilylangtree]

God bless their families.

[Jeff Head]

Actually, this has got more French technology in it than our own. Most of the missile tech they got through Clinton years went into the improvements of their ICBN force.

[Jeff Head]

The Phalanx, CIWS, when in full auto mode, would be dangerous to friendly aircraft that flew into its engagement envelope. BUt, it can be set to manual mode, or in an eminent danger, friendly aircraft can be warned out of those zones.

It should have been active in manual mode, and the detection, acquisition, and targeting systems for their very advanced Barak missiles should have been on in any case.

[Jeff Head]

As am I.

[Jeff Head]

They were in an active combat zone where their own vessels were shelling the Lebannon coast. They were there specifcally to protect those vessels from air attack. One would think that surely they would be at least at General Quarters, with their protective equipment, ECM, radars, EW, etc. working to do their mission.

Iran is one of Israel's principal enemies. Iran is very open about the material and techical support they givve Hezbollah, whom these current operations were targeting. Iran has men on the ground in Lebannon. Iran has threatened recently to annihilate Israel. Iran has, and the IDF is well aware of it, had these C-802 anti-shipping missiles for some time.

One would think they would have been prepared for just this contigency with the most sophisticated ship they have that was designed precisely to defend against that type of threat.

It just does not add up to me.

[Jeff Head]

Amen...God bless and comnfort their families and loved ones...and God rest their souls. May the IDF ensure that they have not died in vain.

[Parley Baer]

Interesting that the Israel Navy uses the terms sergeant instead of petty officer or seaman.