Posted on 07/05/2006 7:03:35 AM PDT by ElRushbo
cause of death unknown
Of you make a Plan B, you usually have to use it. Do you feel the same way about wives?
To: shield
A bit off topic - I posted on another site that Enron's downfall began when Lay partnered with slickmeister in 90's to do the large project in India. After investing >$1B, India chose not to share in the project and Enron was left holding the bag and never recovered financially. The rest is history.
Within a minute of my post, it was deleted. I guess rats just don't want to know the truth but rather live in their own little socialist cocoon.
75 posted on 07/06/2006 6:50:33 AM CDT by newfreep
That's giving the big Slick a little too much credit, I think. India was California, as far as Enron was concerned - another place to "game" on something they knew little about.
Everyone concerned was in over their heads, but little of the money spent was actually Enron's and in other ethical companies, it certainly doesn't require fraud to cover up regular business losses.
You: Wrong. I don't understand why people who know nothing about how 401ks work continue posting nonsense like this.
It is not about how 401ks work in general. It is about how the specific 401k at Enron worked.
The reason people like me keep posting what I posted is because it has been reported over and over again that the employer contribution to the 401k was made in the form of Enron stock. The employees could not sell that stock until the age of 50 even if they left the company.
If your point is that not every company does it this way, of course. My point is that Enron did it this way, and it was a bum deal for the employees.
That's so extremely common in 401ks at public companies that it's pretty close to being a standard industry practice. My company is the exact same way. It represents a tax savings for companies to do this.
Again, if someone got their partial matching funds in Enron stock, they were still free to put their 6% pretax salary contribution anywhere they wanted and they were free to invest their other earnings anywhere they wanted.
My employer's matching contribution, which is entirely in my employer's stock, constitutes less than 10% of my retirement plan.
If my employer, heaven forfend, were to go under, I would not lose my life savings?
Why?
Because I am not a moron like the Enron employees who not only worked for Enron and got free matching stock from Enron, but also put their salary contribution voluntarily in Enron stock and also invested other earnings in Enron stock and who basically never invested in anything other than Enron stock.
Your employer's matching contributions are basically gravy - a nice little extra which was never intended to be the core of anyone's retirement plan.
BTW, my free matching stock will be fully vested by the time I turn 45 - long vesting periods on free stock are a standard employee retention plan.
My point is that Enron did it this way, and it was a bum deal for the employees.
No it wasn't. They got free stock, but that free stock turned out to be worth nothing. They didn't pay for it, so any value they got for it would have been a windfall and getting nothing for it is exactly what they paid for it - an intelligent Enron employee lost not a cent of anything he had personally earned.
Poor analogy.
If someone's family only holds the same level of importance to him as his job, he has serious problems.
Well, name the one.
If trashing other people for being worse off than you apparently are and jobs are just disposable to you, then I don't really care whether you think I made a "poor analogy" or not.
It wasn't "free" stock. An employer's contribution to a 401k is compensation for one's labor. So the Enron employees personally earned that stock.
In other words, they lost that part of their compensation, which they were never free to invest as they please. I call that a bum deal.
I don't know anyone who receives company stock for the employer contribution who has to hold that stock until age 50 regardless of whether they leave the company.
One's salary is one's compensation for one's labor.
Stock awards are a perk.
No employer is required to provide matching funds or stock awards with a 401k plan, and any employer can choose to discontinue such stock awards or matching funds at any time.
Employers cannot by law choose to discontinue compensating employees for work performed, so clearly matching funds and stock awards are not compensation since 401k-providing employers can discontinue them at any time without penalty or liability.
I did no such thing.
I have infinitely more respect, say, for a guy who works unloading trucks for minimum wage than I do for the Enron energy options trader who is crying like a baby because the shares Enron contributed to his 401k for free as an added bonus are now worthless.
It's that trader I am trashing, not people who may or may not make less than I do.
And back when I actually was unloading trucks to make ends meet I would still have laughed at these crybaby Enron employees who put all their eggs in one basket and who apparently think the world owes them a living.
and jobs are just disposable to you,
Everyone who is a grownup knows that jobs don't necessarily last forever. I'm hardly alone in accepting this reality.
"A job for life" is a socialist dream and, like all socialist dreams, it's a recipe for a nightmare.
then I don't really care whether you think I made a "poor analogy" or not.
Oh, I'm sure that someone who willfully misrepresented my position as much as you did in your last post clearly could care less if he did make a silly and pointless analogy.
You are dismising what you call a "perk" as if it were inconsequential...on the order of a free burger. This particular "perk" is a benefit that has very real value. It's a form of compensation. It's not unusual for benefits to add another third in dollar value to one's salary.
Of course it has value. But it's unearned value.
It's a form of compensation.
Wrong.
As I pointed out already, a company can unilaterally decide not to contribute these shares, but a company most certainly can't choose to not pay someone for the work they did.
It's not unusual for benefits to add another third in dollar value to one's salary.
Certainly. It still doesn't mean that those benefits are your salary, unless your employer signs a contract with you guaranteeing such benefits as a condition of your employment.
The Enron shares that Enron gave to its employees as 401k matching funds were totally gratuitous and had the sole purpose of creating an incentive for employees to stay with the company in the future - they were certainly not compensation.
There were only a handful of employees that were energy traders in the bull pen.
Also, I wasn't speaking of their salaries in comparison to whatever yours is. I was speaking of the 10- 15- 20- 40-year employees who lost their jobs, their livelihoods, their health care benefits, their savings, their retirements, their trust.
Good for you, laughing at their misfortune and calling them morons. I know you wouldn't cry if it happened to you or if people piled on and kicked you while you were down.
Everyone who is a "grownup" expects businesses, especially enormous publicly traded ones being touted worldwide for their success, to be aboveboard and not making money from dishonesty.
Enron was just one example of a company that didn't adhere to that principle, causing many others to never trust the business community again.
A job for life may be a "socialist dream," as you call it - and it certainly misrepresents what *I* stated - but it happens every day in the US and there is nothing socialist about that mutual loyalty and respect at all.
You made a pretty silly point yourself when you assumed I'm a male.
Enron and Clinton Corrupt Bedfellows
Charles R. Smith
Thursday, April 24, 2003
The leftist attempt to paint the Enron bankruptcy as a Bush scandal includes a badly made-for-TV movie produced by CBS called "The Crooked E." The spin in the fictional world of Hollywood was that the Bush administration, wooed by Enron dollars, helped the corrupt executives steal from the poor and working class heroes.
If you followed this spin, it was clear that Enron had no contact with the U.S. government prior to George W. Bush coming into office. According to CBS, Enron simply did not exist prior to George W. Bush.
Yet the CBS TV sit-com and its leftist spin flopped like a dead fish when confronted by facts. Enron and Bill Clinton were the best of bedfellows in corruption.
The U.S Commerce Department has been forced to release over 3,000 pages of documents detailing the long list of corrupt deals, trips and government candy doled out to Enron by President Clinton.
The Bush administration did not want to release these documents but was forced by this reporter using the Freedom of Information Act.
Greek Gray Davis
For example, in 1999 Gov. Gray Davis of California led a $200,000 trade trip to Europe that was very high on the Enron list. Davis tripped on California taxpayer expense with his wife in ancient Greece, lobbying on behalf of Enron Wind for the "Greek Wind Project."
The project in Greece was so important that Davis also took his good friend, major DNC donor and Sacramento developer Angelo K. Tsakopoulos. Tsakopoulos and his family are million-dollar contributors to the Democratic National Committee or Democrat candidates including Davis, Bill Clinton, Al Gore and Hillary Clinton. Tsakopoulos also spent time as a guest in the White House Lincoln bedroom.
According to documents forced from the U.S. Commerce Department, Enron Wind noted that Davis and Tsakopoulos were tripping to Greece with some very unusual comments:
"Best man at my Greek wedding," noted one handwritten comment next to a Los Angeles Times article on Tsakopoulos attached to documents from the U.S. Embassy in Athens.
"Major Clinton donor – may be on Clinton trip to Greece."
Enron considered the trade trip so important that it also included a 22-page briefing paper addressed to Gov. Davis detailing the "Greek Wind Project Permitting Issue." Interestingly, the same briefing paper made its way into the commercial section of the U.S. Embassy in Athens.
"An issue has arisen which seems to have some negative implications for follow-on investment in the renewable energy sector," states the Enron document.
"Namely on 4 August 1999, a decree was issued by the Ministry of Development which changes the procedure for obtaining future construction licenses for wind projects on the island of Crete and certain other islands. The decree would have a negative impact on a $30 million project Enron Wind was about to begin construction on in Crete, the Chronos (pronounced Honos) project."
The 1999 documents are part of a long string of heavy lobbying efforts that the Clinton administration carried out to convince the Greeks to buy Enron Wind products for Crete.
For example, a 1998 document prepared for the U.S. ambassador to Greece noted, "The company [Enron] was given an installation license last year, but construction was held up while an archeological study was performed. In the interim, the licenses lapsed and Enron's request for a renewal has not been answered."
"Enron should send more high-level visitors to Greece to underscore the importance of this market," states the 1998 memo to the U.S. ambassador to Greece.
Enron – NATO – Croatia
Enron also pushed the limits inside the former Yugoslavia. Commerce Secretary Ron Brown worked on an Enron contract in Croatia just prior to his death in 1996. Brown's death did place the project on hold but only for a short period of time.
In 1997, Enron executives flew to Croatia with Clinton Commerce Secretary Mickey Kantor. The trade trip took place just after Enron executives made a $100,000 donation to the DNC. As a result, Enron struck a deal with the Croatian government to build a power station and run it for 20 years at a highly inflated price of nearly $200 million above market prices.
However, tapes of the Enron negotiations with Croatian officials show the U.S. energy company had promised more than electricity at higher than normal cost. According to the Financial Times, Croatia hoped the Enron deal would secure political favors inside the Clinton administration, including a state visit to Washington and membership in the World Trade Organization (WTO).
In one reported meeting, Enron's head of international operations, Joseph Sutton, guaranteed that Enron would lobby for the Croatian president to meet Clinton and to seek Clinton's support for Croatia's entry into the WTO, the NATO partnership for peace program and eventually into NATO.
In 1999, Enron Executive Vice President Terence Thorn wrote a personal letter of thanks to President Clinton, carrying out the promised support for Croatia.
"I have good news about an opportunity in a strategically important nation, Croatia. Enron International through the direct involvement of President Franjo Tudjman has successfully concluded negotiations to build a 240 MW natural gas powered plant at Jertovec, Croatia," wrote Thorn to Clinton.
"Our people have come to know Croatia, its people and its President. Through our power project Croatia solidified those ties and welcomed the United States as its largest foreign investor. Croatia is also cooperating with NATO to bring peace to the Balkan region," wrote Thorn.
"President Tudjman's support and perseverance in having a United States company participate in Croatia's economy deserves to be recognized. He would welcome an invitation from you to come to the White House. I respectfully request President Tudjman be invited to visit you in the White House at the earliest possible time," concluded Thorn.
India and Points Beyond
The most infamous Enron project is the troubled Dabhol power plant in India. President Clinton highlighted Enron's problems with its planned $3 billion Dabhol power project in a short "FYI" note to his chief of staff Mack McLarty. McLarty worked with Enron and the U.S. ambassador in New Delhi to keep tabs on the Dabhol project.
Four days before India finally granted approval for the project, Enron donated $100,000 to the DNC.
Many former Clinton administration officials eventually went to work for Enron, including former White House counsel Jack Quinn, former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, former Assistant Treasury Secretary Linda Robertson, former Chair of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission Elizabeth Moler, and the former media adviser to Vice President Al Gore, Greg Simon.
The newly released documents show that the Clinton administration worked for Enron in China, Vietnam, South Africa, India, Brazil, Argentina, Mozambique, South Korea, Japan, Belgium, France, Russia, the Philippines, the West Bank and Uzbekistan.
The scandal that became Enron touched more than a few employees and stockholders. It corrupted nation after nation, spreading its wings as part of Bill Clinton's stained legacy.
* * * * * *
RADIO AND TV SCHEDULE
Charles Smith will be on:
The American Freedom Network with NewsMax contributor Dr. James Hirsen on Friday, 4/25/03, at 11 a.m. Eastern time. Show information at http://www.amerifree.com.
The Jerry Hughes show on Friday, 4/25/03, at 3 p.m. Eastern time. Show information at http://www.cilamerica.com.
The Phil Paleologos "American Breakfast" show on Tuesday, 4/29/03, the Langer Broadcast Network, at 8 a.m. Eastern time. Show information at www.dinershow.com.
The Real Enron Scandal
Charles R. Smith
Monday, Jan. 28, 2002
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/1/28/155951.shtml
Documents Link Enron's Fall to Clinton 'Corruption'
In 1992, Enron was one of the most popular contributors to Bill Clinton and the DNC. Enron was right next to Bill Clinton from his first days in the White House. In 1992, Enron donated $100,000 to Clinton's inauguration, and Enron's top exec, Ken Lay, stayed at the White House 11 times.
If the FBI, GAO or Congress wants to investigate billions of dollars lost to "corruption, collusion and nepotism," they need look no further than Bill Clinton.
Enron executives traveled with Secretary of Commerce Ron Brown in 1994 on trade missions to Russia, India, Indonesia and China, cutting U.S. taxpayer-financed deals in each country. In fact, Brown paid a great deal of attention to Enron. Indonesia was pressed by Clinton's secretary of commerce to accept Enron deals laced with corruption.
Enron's most twisted activities involve a 1994 trade trip to Indonesia with then-Commerce Secretary Brown. Immediately after traveling to Indonesia, Brown personally sought approval for Enron electric power plants sponsored by U.S. funding. The documents show that the Clinton administration knew the deals were also filled with kickbacks for Indonesian president Suharto.
According to a personal letter directed to the Indonesian minister for trade and industry, Brown assisted Enron by endorsing deals with the corrupt Suharto regime for two gas-fired power plants.
According to Enron, the natural gas for the project was to be provided through Pertamina, Indonesia's state-owned oil and gas company. Pertamina, however, stalled the project with excessive demands for higher gas prices.
"Enron power, a world-renowned private power developer, is in the final stages of negotiating two combined cycle, gas turbine power projects," wrote Brown in his 1995 letter.
"The first, a 500 MW plant in East Java, should begin commercial power generation by the end of 1997 if it can promptly negotiate a gas supply Memorandum of Understanding with Pertamina. The other project, a smaller plant in East Kalimantan, also awaits a gas supply agreement.
"I urge you to give full consideration to the proposals," concluded Brown to the Indonesian minister.
Clinton State Department Support for Enron
In addition, the Clinton administration enlisted the State Department to strong-arm the Indonesians to accept the power plant deal. In a March 1995 memo from the American Embassy in Jakarta, U.S. officials pressed the Indonesians to conclude the contracts for Enron.
"Enron Corp. continues to negotiate with the relevant authorities regarding availability and price of gas supply," states the Embassy memo. "Embassy continues to raise the issue of deregulation of the gas supply system with Pertamina."
In October 1995, Brown wrote Hartarto Sastrosurarto, Indonesia's coordinating minister for trade and industry, urging him to conclude the Enron power plant deal.
"I would like to bring to your attention a number of projects involving American companies which seem to be stalled, including several independent power projects. These projects include the Tarahan power project, which involves Southern Electric; the gas powered projects in East Java and East Kalimantan, which involves Enron," wrote Brown.
"Your support for prompt resolution of the remaining issues associated with each of these projects would be most appreciated," concluded Brown.
Press Ignores Enron Links to Clinton
Perhaps one reason why the mainstream press has not paid much attention to this critical 1995 letter written by Ron Brown is the fact that Brown also lobbied hard on behalf of a major contract for Time-Warner with the corrupt Suharto regime.
On Nov. 18, 1996, Enron finally announced that the deal with Suharto was complete. According to Enron's public statement, the U.S.-led energy company had finally won the East Java power project.
"Enron is extremely pleased to reach this crucial step in this project," stated Enron chairman and CEO Kenneth L. Lay on the successful conclusion of the Java power deal.
"Enron's strong experience in developing natural gas-fired plants makes this project ideal for Enron, our partners and our customer."
All was not as it seemed inside the Indonesian power industry, however. In fact, U.S. government officials were keenly aware of the rampant corruption inside Indonesia's electric power producers and, in particular, the Enron power project.
Documented 'Corruption, Collusion and Nepotism'
In October 1998, U.S. Ambassador J. Stapleton Roy wrote a diplomatic cable that he had recently met with Indonesian Director General of Electricity Endro Utomo Notodisoerjo. According to the cable, the Indonesians were more than honest about the ongoing criminal activity.
"Commenting on corruption, collusion and nepotism (KKN), Endro said that in the past there was no separation between 'power' (not electric but former first family power) and business. 'All the IPP's have a relation with power, and it is still going on,' added Endro."
According to State Department documents, Enron was subject to corruption in the two power plant deals with the Suharto government. One State Department cable included an entire section titled "Dealing with Unwanted Partners."
"Unocal executives told resources officer that the firm is close to reaching a deal with its partner, PT Nusamba (controlled by former President Soeharto crony Bob Hasan) to sever ties in two production sharing contracts (PSC) in East Kalimantan and East Java," noted a State Department cable.
Curiously, many secrets still surround the Enron power plants. The U.S. State Department maintains that some information on the Indonesian power deals must remain classified. One partly blacked out cable from the State Department is titled "on power projects, corruption, draft laws."
The December 1998 cable, a discussion between U.S. Ambassador Roy and an individual whose name was withheld, states that the highly placed individual in the Indonesian government "stressed that solutions to the problem must be simple to convince 'the people' that corruption, collusion and nepotism ('KKN') are being dealt with properly.
"The draft oil and gas law is currently with the State Secretariat (Sekeng)," states the cable from Ambassador Roy.
"He expects it to be finalized this month and go before the Indonesian parliament (DPR) in January. He said that those that are not happy with the new law – including Pertamina, the Army and some members of the Indonesian parliament (DPR) – have 'vested interests' in the current system."
'First Family Involvement'
According to dozens of documents, the "vested" interest included bribes and kickbacks allocated to the Suharto family and its "crony" friends. In fact, the Department of Commerce allocated an entire category in its documentation called "first family involvement" to describe the bribes paid to Suharto.
By 1997 the Indonesian power plant deals collapsed due to the rampant corruption. As a result of the collapse, the U.S. government had to pay off millions in insurance claims by the U.S. corporations that lost money.
In 2000, the Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency of the World Bank Group, another U.S. taxpayer-financed organization, noted that it had to pay insurance money to Enron for its Indonesian power plant failure.
"In June of this year, MIGA paid $15 million to Enron Java Power Co. for its investment in P.T. East Java Power Corporation in Indonesia," states the official release from the MIG World Bank.
"The venture was one of many suspended by the presidential decree of September 20, 1997, issued in response to the country's economic crisis."
Robert Rubin and Enron
There are several direct connections between Enron and Bill Clinton. A major part of U.S. taxpayer financing for Enron's Indonesian projects was obtained through the Export-Import bank (EXIM).
Several of the Indonesian projects listed in Commerce documents note that EXIM head Ken Brody worked closely with Commerce Secretary Brown on the U.S. government financing. The EXIM bank under Brody financed over $4 billion worth of gas deals for Enron.
Ken Brody is also a close friend of Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin. Rubin worked with Brody during his years at the investment firm Goldman Sachs. Enron is listed as one of 44 such companies with which Rubin had "significant contact" during his years at Goldman Sachs.
Contributions for Favors
Despite the GAO requests for Bush documents, there are plenty of questions that need to be answered about the Clinton years. A study by the Center for Public Integrity shows that 187 companies participated in 14 Clinton-sponsored trade missions. Of those, 67 are known to have contributed money to the Democrats.
Between 1993 and 1994, 26 companies received support from the Overseas Private Investment Corp. and the Export-Import Bank totaling about $5 billion. According to the center's study, five corporations – Enron, U.S. West, GTE, McDonnell Douglas and Fluor – donated $563,000 to the Democrats and received at least $2.6 billion in contracts.
Moreover, the U.S. government was aware that insuring the false contracts inside Indonesia could push the Overseas Private Investment Corporation into bankruptcy.
"OPIC's combined exposure in Indonesia is close to USD 1 billion, or 5 percent of OPIC's global exposure, all in the electric power sector. As such, resolution of potential insurance claims and/or actions could result in 'an adverse material impact' on OPIC finances," notes a cable from the U.S. ambassador to Indonesia.
Yet, despite being faced with total financial failure due to huge losses, OPIC continued to back more power deals inside Indonesia. The Commerce documents note that during the Clinton years, Indonesian dictator Suharto contracted for 26 U.S. taxpayer-sponsored power projects while his impoverished nation could afford only one such plant.
More Cash for Enron
Still, Enron did not limit its activities to the Export-Import Bank or OPIC. Enron also profited from the Clinton Department of Transportation through a corrupt Maritime finance program. Two power barges for export to Indonesia made by Enron Corp. were built through the DOT Maritime-funding program and backed by $50 million in taxpayer financing.
During the Clinton years the same taxpayer-sponsored Maritime program also tried to finance two dual-use cargo ships for the Chinese navy. The financing fell through only after it was revealed that the Chinese navy could also use the ships as part of an invasion armada pointed at Taiwan.
However, the Department of Transportation Maritime financing did manage to lend over $60 million to build a paddle-wheel steam boat/casino. Still another DOT Maritime deal landed millions in taxpayer-supported loans for two floating combination hotel-casino barges.
Trade Trips for DNC Donations
In August 1994, Brown led a trade mission to China and Hong Kong that included Enron. The mission also included major million-dollar DNC donors such as Loral CEO Bernard Schwartz and investment banker Sanford Robertson. Robertson admitted to the New York Post that he was invited solely because he supported Clinton with campaign money.
The telltale Post article was discovered in the files of Ron Brown along with a tight list of exclusive DNC donors. Another document that Ron Brown kept in his personal files listed Enron, Edison Mission Energy, California Energy, Hughes, AT&T, Federal Express, Sprint and Chrysler as donating money to the DNC.
The direct donation of money in exchange for favors is clearly documented. The Indonesian scam took the U.S. taxpayers and corporate investors for billions of dollars in lost funds. Company execs and U.S. government officials ignored the "corruption."
Documented Crime but No Investigation
Documents obtained from the Clinton administration are filled with direct quotes and hard numbers detailing taxpayer monies that were paid as illegal bribes to a corrupt regime. The citizens of Indonesia and the United States were the victims of a massive crime. That crime has received no press attention and no investigation.
It may shock and surprise you that the demise of Enron started long before George W. Bush was elected. Enron's fall was due to "corruption" that started during the Clinton administration.
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