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More scientists express doubts on Darwin
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | June 22, 2006 1:00 a.m. Eastern

Posted on 06/22/2006 1:28:41 PM PDT by Tim Long

600 dissenters sign on challenging claims about support for theory

More than 600 scientists holding doctoral degrees have gone on the record expressing skepticism about Darwin's theory of evolution and calling for critical examination of the evidence cited in its support.

All are signatories to the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism statement, which reads: "We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."

The statement, which includes endorsement by members of the prestigious U.S. National Academy of Sciences and Russian Academy of Sciences, was first published by the Seattle-based Discovery Institute in 2001 to challenge statements about Darwinian evolution made in promoting PBS's "Evolution" series.

The PBS promotion claimed "virtually every scientist in the world believes the theory to be true."

The list of 610 signatories includes scientists from National Academies of Science in Russia, Czech Republic, Hungary, India (Hindustan), Nigeria, Poland, Russia and the United States. Many of the signers are professors or researchers at major universities and international research institutions such as Cambridge University, British Museum of Natural History, Moscow State University, Masaryk University in Czech Republic, Hong Kong University, University of Turku in Finland, Autonomous University of Guadalajara in Mexico, University of Stellenbosch in South Africa, Institut de Paleontologie Humaine in France, Chitose Institute of Science & Technology in Japan, Ben-Gurion University in Israel, MIT, The Smithsonian and Princeton.

"Dissent from Darwinism has gone global," said Discovery Institute President Bruce Chapman. "Darwinists used to claim that virtually every scientist in the world held that Darwinian evolution was true, but we quickly started finding U.S. scientists that disproved that statement. Now we're finding that there are hundreds, and probably thousands, of scientists all over the world that don't subscribe to Darwin's theory."

The Discovery Institute is the leading promoter of the theory of Intelligent Design, which has been at the center of challenges in federal court over the teaching of evolution in public school classes. Advocates say it draws on recent discoveries in physics, biochemistry and related disciplines that indicate some features of the natural world are best explained as the product of an intelligent cause rather than an undirected process such as natural selection.

"I signed the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism statement because I am absolutely convinced of the lack of true scientific evidence in favor of Darwinian dogma," said Raul Leguizamon, M.D., pathologist and professor of medicine at the Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Mexico.

"Nobody in the biological sciences, medicine included, needs Darwinism at all," he added. "Darwinism is certainly needed, however, in order to pose as a philosopher, since it is primarily a worldview. And an awful one, as Bernard Shaw used to say."


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crevo; crevolist; mdm; pavlovian; wingnutdaily
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To: OneWingedShark
Many advances in science can be credited to Christians, simply because they believed that the common rules/laws of nature would reflect God's designs... in other words, they expected science to be fully provable and practical.

Non-Christians believe the universe runs by rules, too. Name one scientific advance that can be laid squarely at the feet of Creationism.

581 posted on 06/27/2006 11:37:23 AM PDT by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: OneWingedShark
I don't know what bilge you've been fed, but Religion and Science are not, by nature, mutually exclusive schools of thought.

They are different ways of acquiring knowledge. You are correct that many early scientists were Christians, but if you examine their thought in detail you will find that they believed God set up the laws of nature and let them run.

Science and revealed religion depart every time science finds evidence that conflicts with someone's interpretation of scripture.

The earliest major example is Galileo's demonstration of the moons of Jupiter and his argument that the earth revolved around the sun.

In the early 1800's, decades before Darwin, geologists abandoned the argument for a single, world wide flood. By the end of the 19th century, the earth was assumed to be hundreds of millions of years old.

How a religious person deals with these conflicts is a personal matter, but the conflicts exist.

582 posted on 06/27/2006 11:44:48 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: OmahaFields
I don't see why you keep posting to me to keep my religion out of the classroom. I have said I did that. Are you one of those people who believes if they just keep saying something over and over, people will believe it's true (in this case inferring that I proselytise in class)? I don't know why you keep saying that.

I gotta laugh about your comment about imposing my will by praying for someone. If you aren't Christian, then you would believe my prayers go nowhere anyway. How does that harm you? Is wishing you well also forbidden by you as well? ;) Anyway, hon, you got issues, and somehow I stepped into them. I feel bad for you, and yeah, I probably WILL say a prayer for you. I promise it will be something innocuous like a prayer for mercy or something. Have a good day.

susie

583 posted on 06/27/2006 11:46:43 AM PDT by brytlea (amnesty--an act of clemency by an authority by which pardon is granted esp. to a group of individual)
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To: Junior
Name one scientific advance that can be laid squarely at the feet of Creationism."

The universe had a beginning - Genesis 1:1,

584 posted on 06/27/2006 12:59:06 PM PDT by celmak
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To: Junior
P.S: From 500 scientist to 650 in less than 6 months, and the list is growing!
585 posted on 06/27/2006 1:02:11 PM PDT by celmak
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To: js1138
How a religious person deals with these conflicts is a personal matter

That would be ideal, but as it is we have a very large part of the population who continue to cling to the past. Using god or religion to explain the unexplainable is something I can easily accept, but I also understand that as we become more knowledgeable the list of wondrous things god is responsible for will forever dwindle as we advance our understanding and knowledge of the universe. I'm sure most scripture made sense at the point in time it was written but it is not timeless and it is in our nature to seek the truth of our past and explore the unknown even if it disproves all we were taught. Where in our ancient past would we be now if our ancestors withheld all technology that could passably be used to contradict scripture?

586 posted on 06/27/2006 1:07:16 PM PDT by Realism (Some believe that the facts-of-life are open to debate.....)
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To: celmak
P.S: From 500 scientist to 650 in less than 6 months, and the list is growing!

Good answer in your post #584.

But the reason that the list of anti-evo scientists is growing is because creationists have created their own unaccredited science degrees.

In the long run this will be counter-productive. These people are not very good scientists. Would you want your Biblical exegesis done by a cell biologist?

587 posted on 06/27/2006 1:14:58 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

Most of the people signing do not have degrees in biology.


588 posted on 06/27/2006 1:19:03 PM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: js1138

We ran through the list in some earlier threads.

Many of them said their position was not accurately represented and they objected to being on the list.

Many of them didn't have real degrees in anything. ;)


589 posted on 06/27/2006 1:23:28 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: celmak

That's not a scientific advance. That's an assertion.


590 posted on 06/27/2006 1:27:51 PM PDT by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: celmak

First off, the way the survey question is worded, I would probably have signed it had I not known it was put out by that particular organization. Secondly, how many of those "scientists" are biologists? Anyone else has as much bearing on this issue as you or I.


591 posted on 06/27/2006 1:29:09 PM PDT by Junior (Identical fecal matter, alternate diurnal period)
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To: Tim Long
"Is a hypercane just a high-speed hurricane? I don't really see how that relates to the canopy theory.'

It's a mostly stationary high-speed hurricane capable of putting an enormous amount of moisture into the air and at atmospheric level far above normal. It could explain where 40 days of rain came from.

Hypercanes - PDF file

592 posted on 06/27/2006 1:32:08 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: thomaswest
"On crevo threads I have read so often of "the evolutionist, Nazi, Marxist, communist, humanist, secularist, 'anti-Christian' conspiracy to fluoridate the water supply and destroy all morality". Are you aware of this plot?"

Ice cream, Mandrake... Children's ice cream!
593 posted on 06/27/2006 2:16:22 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.)
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To: DannyTN

But how could it produce more water than what was on earth at the start of the flood? And it doesn't account for higher atmospheric pressure, and a canopy would.


594 posted on 06/27/2006 2:18:54 PM PDT by Tim Long (I spit in the face of people who don't want to be cool.)
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To: celmak; Junior
Name one scientific advance that can be laid squarely at the feet of Creationism."

"The universe had a beginning - Genesis 1:1,"

The science behind current Cosmology is not the result of reading about the Genesis origin story. For you to attempt to credit the Bible or creationists for that particular theory is disingenuous.

595 posted on 06/27/2006 2:43:47 PM PDT by b_sharp (There is always one more mess to clean up.)
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To: celmak
"P.S: From 500 scientist to 650 in less than 6 months, and the list is growing!

Have you bothered to read the declaration? It is ambiguous at best and is obviously designed to be interpreted in such a way that only scientists who are well aware of its intended use would hesitate to sign it. Most if not all scientists believe that no scientific field should be taken on faith; questioning is the basis for discovery. At most and as written it is nothing but a list of a 'single mechanism doubters'.

I fail to see how this declaration is a net gain for anti-evolutionists since it does not declare the signers as anti-evolutionists.

P.S.: The list of scientists who are named 'Steve' that support evolution is a whole lot bigger than DI's little list so if you intend on applying DI's list in some misguided appeal to authority it can be easily countered.

596 posted on 06/27/2006 2:56:28 PM PDT by b_sharp (There is always one more mess to clean up.)
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To: DannyTN
"It's a mostly stationary high-speed hurricane capable of putting an enormous amount of moisture into the air and at atmospheric level far above normal. It could explain where 40 days of rain came from."

Doubtful. The amount of 'extra' water necessary to flood the Earth is more than a hurricane, even one of monstrous magnitude, could handle. Even so it would only be the mechanism for distributing the water, not the source.

There are no current creationist hypotheses which can explain the flood and the absence of evidence a global flood would have produced. They all require more energy than is available and fail to account for the affects of heat produced. Even the idea that there were no (or only very short) mountains before the flood with rapid plate movement after to give them height ignores the resulting kinetic energy which would produce enough heat to boil the oceans and create massive tsunamis.

In all current flood hypotheses the science is bad.

597 posted on 06/27/2006 3:09:20 PM PDT by b_sharp (There is always one more mess to clean up.)
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To: OmahaFields
This is a repeat, since my previous answer has not found its way here.

If it is against the Christian moral code to support IV-embryo transfer, how can moral Christians pray for a procedure that is not morally allowed by their God?

What you have produced is a loaded question. In any case, whether IV transfer is against the Christian moral code or not, Christians also pray for sinners. BTW Christians also serve in combat.

598 posted on 06/27/2006 3:10:45 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: celmak; Junior
Sir Francis Bacon --- The scientific method.

A quote --- Novum Organum(preface)

But if any man there be who, not content to rest in and use the knowledge which has already been discovered, aspires to penetrate further; to overcome, not an adversary in argument, but nature in action; to seek, not pretty and probable conjectures, but certain and demonstrable knowledge; -- I invite all such to join themselves, as true sons of knowledge, with me, that passing by the outer courts of nature, which numbers have trodden, we may find a way at length into her inner chambers. And to make my meaning clearer and to familiarise the thing by giving it a name, I have chosen to call one of these methods or ways Anticipation of the Mind, the other Interpretation of Nature.

599 posted on 06/27/2006 3:23:47 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: b_sharp
There are no current creationist hypotheses which can explain the flood and the absence of evidence a global flood would have produced.

Actually there are hundreds, perhaps even thousands of explanations. Many disagree with each other and virtually all are contradicted by science. But there is no shortage of explanations!


And now for something totally different:

Q. What's harder than getting a pregnant Brontosaurus into the ark?

A. Getting a Brontosaurus pregnant in the ark!

(Noah! Make them stop. I'm getting seasick!)

600 posted on 06/27/2006 4:04:47 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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