Posted on 06/19/2006 6:35:04 AM PDT by Sub-Driver
Presbyterians Weigh Worship Alternatives
(AP) BIRMINGHAM, Ala. Delegates of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) are to tackle whether to adopt gender-inclusive language for worship of the divine Trinity along with the traditional "Father, Son and Holy Spirit."
A study panel said the classical language for the Trinity shouldn't be diminished, but advocated "fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God" to "expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder."
One reason is that language limited to the Father and Son "has been used to support the idea that God is male and that men are superior to women," the panel said.
Conservatives object that the church should stick close to the way God is named in the Bible.
Among the feminist-inspired, gender-inclusive options:
• "Mother, Child and Womb"
• "Lover, Beloved, Love"
• "Creator, Savior, Sanctifier"
• "Rock, Redeemer, Friend"
• "King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love."
(Excerpt) Read more at wcbstv.com ...
I briefly attended a presbyterian church.. the pastor was some foolish female who when reading the scripture would always say "he or she" "him or her" "man and womankind" 'man and woman" etc.. whenever the text of the scripture read "he" or "him" etc........
Now not only was this stupid beyond all reason.. but she'd even do it when the context of the reading was clearly first person such as letters from Paul where he said "When I was a boy" she literally read it as "when I was a boy or a girl"...
The presbyterian (at least factions of it) have so little to do with the word of God that it would be laughable if it wasn't so damned sad.
This was also the same person who claimed there were no angels in the Bible....
Letting someone with an associates degree become ordaned and preach is like leting someone whos played tic tac toe once become a 5 star general and lead troops into war.
Rock,Paper,Scissors?
The Three Amigos?
And they wonder why church attendence is declining.
As Hayek once said of the Nazis that "They might be willing listen to British alternatives to Socialism but will never believe that the British can do Socialism better than they themselves can", so the young and the "progressives" might listen to the church's alternatives to nihilism, they will never believe that the church can do nihilism better then they themselves can.
It is instructive that while the Catholic church in the USA was becoming more "progressive" (guitar masses anyone?) they steadily lost members. Since Jean-Paul II came along and reversed course to become more conservative, membership has been rising.
It's no surprise that many in the west embrace Islam if the alternative is the Presbyterians...
We have been going to an Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC) which we have been very happy with. The church and it’s people have very conservative values. A good sign is the numerous ‘W” stickers and support the troops ribbons on the cars in the parking lot.
The EPC broke off from the mainstream Presbyterians beginning in the fall of 1980 when a group of pastors and elders held meetings in St. Louis, Missouri. These leaders had become increasingly distressed by liberalism within their denominations. They wanted to form a church that took seriously the words of Scripture, the theology of the historic confessions of the faith, and the evangelical fervor of Presbyterian founders. They envisioned a denomination that was truly evangelical and truly Presbyterian; hence the name.
Many of our new members have come from other churches and denominations that have been moving farther to the left. If you are a Presbyterian I suggest looking for an EPC in your area.
I can understand their dilema...You'd be hard pressed to find any religion (or church) that believes the bible is the Word of God...
It's been determined for some time that the bible only 'contains some truth'...And that's accepted as legitimate...
That's why there are so many denominations and sects...There is no truth...
The Church needs to come down hard on this heresy...it is time for The Church to judge itself publicly....this is not doctrinal debate...this is EVIL.
We re approaching the end of days. The era of organized churches is aparently ending. Mainstream Protestant Churches are dissolving in a sea of revisionist idiocy.
Tackle: Liberals push the matter and it gets hammered and defeated when the vote comes.
"The mystery of the triune God"??? What mystery? God is one and yet takes three "forms" - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (or Ghost). The only mystery is how he does that. But the Gender language of the Bible goes back through the original Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. God is quite clear from the Beginning of HIS gender. Any attempt to explain HIM in any other form is taking away His sovereignty, power, and authority.
Such discussions by denominations hell-bent on mysticising and neutering God are an stumbling block for those who are confused already, and I believe - an abomination...
I was totally agreeing with your post until that last statement.... How does a piece of paper make someone qualified to be ordained and preach? Some of the greatest preachers to ever live have had no Bible College education... The piece of paper/education is not what makes the preacher - it is God's calling and strengthening. Yes, the studies for a degree can give additional preparation - but without God's divine hand - no-one could be a preacher, or should be ordained.
And I have heard some very highly trained preachers and such (as in Doctoral Degrees), make some incredibly stupid and non-Scriptural, even blasphemous, statements.
a lot of churchs no longer fear God and do whatevery they want. If they feared HIM, they would be eagerly studying His Word, not the culture around them. Proverbs says
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fool dispise widsom and instruction." - From God through David.
sorry
fools = FOOLS
Amen. 2 Timothy 3:7 - Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
The problem is, folks don't have a clue whats in the Bible.. but get some associate nonsense and the presbytery says here's your new pastor....
Sorry, but I think 2 years of study doesn't qualify you to preach squat. Especially when they clearly don't have a clue what is in the Bible.
I know if the PSCUSA ( is that the body under discussion?) does this and baptizes in anyname other than The Father, Son and Holy Spirit the baptism would not be considered valid by the Catholic Church. Which I know most Protestants would not be worried about. But I would like to know would other Protestant denominations regard such Baptisms as valid?
I have found a church that believes the bible is the Word of God and Gods word is truth.
I feel blessed to have found it.
BIRMINGHAM, Alabama (AP) -- Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) delegates stopped short Monday of approving gender-inclusive language for worship of the divine Trinity, along with the traditional "Father, Son and Holy Spirit."
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