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Can't Complete High School? Head Straight for College
New York Times ^ | May 30, 2006 | Karen Arenson

Posted on 05/30/2006 7:02:57 AM PDT by gallaxyglue

By KAREN W. ARENSON Published: May 30, 2006 It is a kind of Alice-in-Wonderland idea. If you do not finish high school, head straight for college. Suzanne DeChillo/The New York Times ...But many colleges — public and private, two-year and four-year — will accept students who have not graduated from high school or earned equivalency degrees...In New York, the issue flared in a budget battle this spring. There are nearly 400,000 students like Ms. Pointer nationwide, accounting for 2 percent of all college students, 3 percent at community colleges and 4 percent at commercial, or profit-making, colleges, according to a survey by the United States Education Department in 2003-4. That is up from 1.4 percent of all college students four years earlier....(S)ome educators say even students who could not complete high school should be allowed to attend college. Nowhere is this contradiction more evident than in California. This year, 47,000 high school seniors, about 10 percent of the class, have not passed the exit examinations required to graduate from high school. They can still enroll in many colleges, although they are no longer eligible for state tuition grants. State Senator Deborah Ortiz, Democrat of Sacramento, has proposed legislation to change that. "As long as the opportunity to go to college exists for students without a diploma," Ms. Ortiz said, "qualifying students from poor or low-income families should remain entitled to college financial aid."

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: education; highereducation
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To: Buffettfan

More liberal "we don't want to hurt their self esteem" nonsense.


101 posted on 05/30/2006 12:24:47 PM PDT by Buffettfan (VIVA LA MIGRA! - LONG LIVE THE MINUTEMEN!)
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To: AnAmericanMother

My English teachers would have had fits over the use of the word "like" in the way I increasingly see it used. Maybe some of the "new" English is really a backlash at the strict English teachers of the past.


102 posted on 05/30/2006 12:25:06 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: applpie

I found college useful for future employers to show them I was good at jumping through hoops in the proscribed order.


103 posted on 05/30/2006 12:25:42 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (Illegal immigrants are just undocumented friends you haven't met yet!)
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To: bigeasy_70118
Not to totally insult all high school teachers, but my theory is most of them haven't emotionally gotten past that stage in their lives, thus their first career inclination is to return to their level of comfort.

That, or the students' attitudes have more influence over the teachers than vice-versa. I've noticed teachers acting their students' age in other grade levels, from kindergarten through college.

104 posted on 05/30/2006 12:28:31 PM PDT by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: LetsRok

That is not necessarily true any more. Many colleges have certificate programs that are designed to prepare students for specific jobs.

This article is not clear as to what type of programs the students mentioned are enrolling in. If they wish to enroll in a program that is job specific education for up to two years I have no problem with the idea at all. I do have an issue if students failed at high school now want taxpayer money in order to enroll in degree programs that are over their head and they are likely to fail.


105 posted on 05/30/2006 12:39:20 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: Tammy8
That is not necessarily true any more. Many colleges have certificate programs that are designed to prepare students for specific jobs.

To get a BA or BS is more than just getting a certificate. I majored in MIS, but had to take other unrelated courses to "round out" my degree.
106 posted on 05/30/2006 12:45:12 PM PDT by LetsRok
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To: Tammy8
I was reading an article on diesel mechanics. It is a lucrative career which enables people to become upwardly mobile.In some cases people become managers , in other cases they use the high salary to pay for college.The same is also true of court reporting. Most young people , yes there are exceptions, graduate from high school with a piece of paper and a bunch of bad memories. Imagine, if instead they had valuable skills which in some cases netted upwards of 40,000 dollars a year. It boggles the mind to think young people from the middle and lower classes could be financially secure.
107 posted on 05/30/2006 1:04:31 PM PDT by after dark (I love hateful people. They help me unload karmic debt.)
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To: LetsRok

I was not referring to a BA or BS or even an AA or AS; those are degree programs.

What I was referring to are called certificate programs, at least in my area. They are job specific study programs, that require very few classes outside of job requirements. This was all new to me, until my daughters were planning for college and I saw certificate programs listed in catalogs. Students enrolled in this type of program do not receive a degree, they receive a certificate of completion of classes in a particular field. The idea is they will not take classes that are not needed in their chosen career, and will be job ready in 2 years or less, depending on the program.


108 posted on 05/30/2006 1:07:21 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and secure the border!!!)
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To: Rakkasan1









Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary






proscribe
One entry found for proscribe.


Main Entry: pro·scribe
Pronunciation: prO-'skrIb
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): pro·scribed; pro·scrib·ing
Etymology: Latin proscribere to publish, proscribe, from pro- before + scribere to write -- more at SCRIBE
1 : to publish the name of as condemned to death with the property of the condemned forfeited to the state
2 : to condemn or forbid as harmful or unlawful : PROHIBIT
- pro·scrib·er noun


Was proscribed a typo?


109 posted on 05/30/2006 2:07:05 PM PDT by RipSawyer (Growing grumpier by the minute.)
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To: RipSawyer

indeed a typo. should be "prescribed".


110 posted on 05/30/2006 2:10:14 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (Illegal immigrants are just undocumented friends you haven't met yet!)
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To: longtermmemmory
(we have arrived at brave new world where classic literature is no longer known)

A culture that worships instant gratification and technology is bound to arrive at a brave new world were learning the works and ideas of classic literature, the foundation of our civilization, is no longer needed. But we do this at our own peril.

111 posted on 05/30/2006 2:13:47 PM PDT by l33t
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To: l33t

Public high schools are designed to teach "socialization" not literature. Community colleges tend to foster learning better than most high schools. It is a good sign that average and below average students are no longer wasting four years in dumbed down classes. It will be easier for community colleges to break them of bad habits.


112 posted on 05/30/2006 3:45:46 PM PDT by after dark (I love hateful people. They help me unload karmic debt.)
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To: Huck

Colleges know that a huge chunk of the freshmen have no business being in school. But their parents serve as cash cows, so they take them in and milk them before they go away. Those who have not graduated from high schools probably are no worse the the lower half of the graduates who enroll in college.


113 posted on 05/30/2006 3:52:28 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Huck

The best reason for going to college is the contacts one makes there.


114 posted on 05/30/2006 3:54:49 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: gallaxyglue

This will cheapen college degrees if this is allowed to continue. They are being cheapened enough with stupid programs like "Women's Studies", etc.

I mean, seriously - what does it say for your college if you have people graduating that couldn't (or wouldn't) even earn a high school diploma or a GED?


115 posted on 05/30/2006 3:55:45 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
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To: after dark

Once upon a time there were schools called academies, and they providing schooling for youngsters from 13 to 19. Students would graduate with the equivalent of two years of college. Such schools began to go saway in the 1930s in Texas when the high schools added a 12th grade. For some of the better high schools, the graduates were as good as academy graduates and for middle class parents became a bargin. But after WWII when the high schools started to grauate the majority of their students, the quality of instruction began to go down even as more and more of them aimed to go one to college.


116 posted on 05/30/2006 4:00:22 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: after dark
"It depends on what degree she is choosing. If she is majoring in diesel mechanics at a community college , I do not see why she must have four years of high school."

It just seems like we have no standards anymore. How do you move on from one grade to another?

Normal Person: Pass 3rd grade and go to 4th grade.

Libs: Dropout and go to college!

The Libs are killing us!

117 posted on 05/30/2006 4:01:38 PM PDT by Osprey (,/)
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To: gallaxyglue

A distinction needs to be made between community colleges and four year competitive universities. Community colleges offer vocational training sadly lacking in public high schools. Most of the non" academically gifted" will need a trade. The "non gifted" are not treated well in high schools and would be better off at community colleges. They will end up at community colleges anyways.

Advanced and honors placement kids should not go to community colleges. Most colleges do not recognize work done at community colleges.


118 posted on 05/30/2006 4:04:14 PM PDT by after dark (I love hateful people. They help me unload karmic debt.)
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To: TruthShallSetYouFree

Using the phrases "and I go" or "he goes" in addition to "I'm like" or "he's like" has become part of the vernacular. Listen carefully to most people. I might say "I said" "he said" and so on but I know a lot of people who use the term "he says" or "so I says" and frankly, I'd rather here "like" and "go" than that!!

I don't need to be a snob about it. Now..... let's talk about the people who intersperse the word like every other word or use the same five words to describe literally every thought or experience. Americans are starting to sound like primitive tribes with limited vocabulary - I have to be careful about choosing words because I often note the blank stares of people because they do not know what I am talking about - and I'm speaking of what I consider basic words - examples: excoriate, verdant, profundity, prescient, moribund, ubiquitous. It's endless.


119 posted on 05/30/2006 4:09:37 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Osprey

Don't look at me! I did not make the high schools what they are. I think people should work at grade level. If your grader can do ninth grade work she should be in ninth grade. Also some of these dropouts can do high school work. They are dropping out because of bullying.


120 posted on 05/30/2006 4:09:42 PM PDT by after dark (I love hateful people. They help me unload karmic debt.)
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