Posted on 05/25/2006 7:02:37 PM PDT by Hoodat
The federal appeals court in Atlanta on Thursday declined to rule on the constitutionality of controversial Cobb County evolution disclaimers because the court said it did not have enough information to make the decision.
The ruling was the latest twist in a nationally watched case that has raised questions of local authority over schools and whether Cobb's sticker -- which called evolution "a theory, not a fact" -- runs afoul of the First Amendment.
The ruling means more arguments from lawyers and, perhaps, a new trial.
-snip-
The 11th Circuit noted that all parties in the case agree that some evidence presented to Cooper during a four-day trial is now missing. "The problems presented by a record containing significant evidentiary gaps are compounded because at least some key findings of the district court are not supported by the evidence that is contained in the record," Judge Ed Carnes wrote.
(Excerpt) Read more at ajc.com ...
I think it's a typo. He meant to say deficit.
Well, the District of Columbia sure demonstrates that money alone doesn't make the schools good. Don't they spend more per capita on education than any state? I haven't seen the stats in a while, but I think they do, and their schools are at or near the bottom.
"The more money spent, the worse it tends to be."
Which reports? I know that some inner city schools that spend lots don't do well, but i also know that some of the top-rated public schools in my state also spend the most per student. And poor rural areas that spend the least also rank near the bottom in test results and in the percentage of kids who go on to college.
But if some group wants to force evolution only on the schools, it's OK because those purporting it claim the respectability and backing of *science*. They're smarter and therefore know better what is best for all of us. Therefore, ignoring the wishes of the parents, whose children are the ones being educated and who are paying for the school system, is justified because they really don't know better and what's best for them, so they need to have the courts decide it for them.
NOT!
Local governments can make local decisions. This is the right move.
I actually don't have an opinion on the outcome of this court case yet. My value judgement is that the sticker was silly even if one looks at it from the point of view of a creationist (which I can do pretty easily because I was one not too long ago).
But private schools and homeschools do not. Lots of money per student doesn't mean the money is getting to them. It often goes to administrative costs.
Census: Nation's Public Schools in the Red http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1365994/posts
The percentage of kids who go on to college is not indication of the success of that student in life. So what if someone doesn't go to college as long as you can support yourself.
Are you people high? A federal judge dictates purely by fiat (and at the of a gun) what a popularly elected local school board can and cannot place in their school curriculum. And you support this? Nevermind the issue. If you are going to selectively rule on points of law based solely on the opinion conferred, then you are acting just like Democrats.
Consider this scenario: A history textbook contains a flattering description of President Clinton. A local schoolboard which represents the people that elected them decide that a disclaimer should be added to the textbook to inform the student that this flattering description pointedly omits the fact that Clinton was the only elected president to ever be impeached. A federal judge rules that the county school board did not have the right to add this disclaimer and then orders them to remove it (at the point of a gun). And you pro-evolutionists would agree with this decision? Or is that somehow 'different'? I thought that only leftists were capable of such hypocrisy.
"But private schools and homeschools do not. Lots of money per student doesn't mean the money is getting to them. It often goes to administrative costs."
Administrative costs mnost definitely need to be cut, although things like NCLB sure aren't helping. I know our local system is spending upward of $1 million just for the testing and stat collecting. But as far as what private schools spend, I guess it depends on the school. The best private school in my area charges enough to pay for a year of tuition, room, board and books in a state college, and it's not a residential school. Tuition there is more than the per-pupil cost at the public schools -- and the education is better. Of course, they also don't accept kids who are borderline mentally retarded (heck, they don't even accept kids of average intelligence).
Going to college is not the end-all measure of success. I know lots of good and successful folks who didn't -- my mother, for instance. But generally speaking, you'll be much better off over the years if you do.
All said, this judge has no business telling the schools what to put in textbooks. But then, I don't think Congress has any business telling local schools what to teach, a la NCLB.
I have made those comparisons in the past. And as much or more is known about the theory of evolution than the theories behind mechanics gravity. Just because you see something fall does *NOT* constitue a "well established theory."
Creationism is NOT a theory under any and every possible definitoion of the term. Creationism is a BELIEF.
yes, I want my children taught that Evolution is a theory because it is.
Fine. But remember what a theory isn't.
Physics is not necessarily a theory...as planes do fly...
The fact that planes fly (or things fall down) is irrelevant to the theory behind WHY they do so. Physics and gravity theories are much more in flux than TToE.
but, I doubt I came from a self evolving form of primate. :))))
Ignorance is nothing to be proud of.
you people just make my day.....lolol
The feeling is mutual.
That is an interesting comment. Hair on the body disappeared but why did hair on the head remain thick. People who evolved in cold climates have also lost most of their body hair. Surely that hair would be added protection. Many, if not most, of the animals on "the savannah" have hair all over their bodies. Surely they have a need to regulate heat but haven't evolved.
Evolution is a belief...duh...Some people believe that evolution is the factor. Christians believe that God Created the universe..and it has scientific evidence for that as well. It does belong in the teaching.
Evolution is a theory supported by a massive body of evidence. Evolution is silent on the creation of the Universe, since it is irrelevant to the subject at hand. However, just for fun, please provide the so-called "scientific evidence" of a monothiestic belief. If they want to include such a belief in comparative religions or philosophy, they should.
they why did you bring it up...you brought it up. I wondered the same thing.
This makes no sense.
I agree about the ignorance....know what the real truth is, God did in fact create the Universe and the physics that makes it work. It's actually the only logical explanation that works. Chew on that for awhile. nature left to itself cannot create itself to such perfect order.....:)) I bet that frosts your mug for a bit....:))
Your belief system bothers me not at all. It has the same scientific validity of any other belief system, such as TFSM.
I was wondering whare u get dat name of "Freedumb"...so, is being dumb free actually.....Enron exe's found out that being smart is costly....lolol....:))
Once again, I have no idea what you mean by that post. It is a little early to be drinking so I assume you meant to say something?...
Those reports are fudged. Here's how the thing works. The per pupil expenses compare a very select group of private schools to public schools. The private schools can "cherry pick" students. That means they don't accept students with severe learning disbilities, emotional problems, etc. etc.
Public schools don't have the same luxury. They have to accept everyone, which means additional facilities and staff that adds to the total.
But what is interesting, the guys doing the studies also cherry pick. They tend to compare public schools to selct private institutions, such as a religious school. They don't compare public schools in poor neighborhoods to those in rich neighborhoods or to elite private schools.
That would change the dynamic. Public schools in Westchester (a suburb of NYC) spend a fortune on kids and get results. The same is true for the elite private schools that run forty to fifty thousand a year.
In the affluent suburbs and among the elite private schools, the system isn't collapsing, it's actually improving.
That's not a huge percentage of the population.
Sure it is.
No, it isn't. It's a population made up of well-to-do people who are very, very focused on their kids' educations. And both systems -- the wealthy suburb and the private schools have eliminated the expensive "problem kids" through various means. If you're a private school you cherry pick. If you're a parent in a wealthy suburb and you're kid has problems, you don't send the kid to public school. You send the kid to a private school that specializes in the problem.
You have made a number of assertions, but you have not substantated any of them; moreover you have made a number of false statememts in suggestng that the theory of evolution
addresses the origin of life and in stating that no transitional forms exist.
Only if the decisions don't violate state and federal law.
The state establishes school boards. It mandates that they shall produce a science curriculum. If the school board fails to do this, is members are subject to, among other things, impeachment and removal from office for high crimes.
Since the stickers amount to lying by omission (saying that biology is a theory and should be taken with a grain of salt, but not saying that for the rest of science), the school board is in violation of the law.
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