Pope asks India not to ban religious conversions

Hindustan Times ^ | May 20, 2006

[nickcarraway]

India has responded with diplomatic equanimity to Pope Benedict XVI's seemingly provocative remarks condemning attempts to ban religious conversion in certain states.

The pope had told India’s new ambassador to the Vatican, Amitava Tripathi, on Thursday that the country should "firmly reject" attempts "to legislate clearly discriminatory restrictions on the fundamental right to religious freedom". He had also taken note of the "disturbing signs of religious intolerance which had troubled some regions of the nation".

New Delhi responded on Friday with a statement, reiterating the constitutional "freedom of conscience" and the right to freely profess, practise and propagate religion. "It is acknowledged universally that India is a secular and democratic country where adherents of all faiths enjoy equal rights," said a foreign ministry spokesperson.

It was the pope's second declaration this week in defence of religious freedom in countries where Christians are a minority. In India, the statement comes in the backdrop of Rajasthan planning to become the sixth state to enact the anti-conversion law the pope was referring to. Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Arunachal Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, and Orissa already have laws that bar conversions but allow re-conversions to Hinduism. Jharkhand has declared its intention to enact a similar law.

The BJP-ruled Rajasthan, however, has not been able to convince Governor Pratibha Patil to give her assent to the Religious Conversion Bill. She returned the bill making a point similar to the one made by the pope -- that its provisions would affect the right to freedom of religion.

The BJP has often attributed attacks on Christian missionaries, including the murder of Graham Staines in Orissa, as reactions to their proselytising. During his recent Bharat Suraksha Yatra, BJP president Rajnath Singh had described proselytising "dangerous" and asked all BJP-ruled states to enact a similar law.

[Diddle E. Squat]

And the bible belt is tolerating??

The Hindus I work with seem to think so. Maybe you should get out more, instead of relying on bigoted stereotypes thrown out to rationalize legal suppression of religious speech.

[Romish_Papist]

What is your most precious and important Hindu Temple? Care to build a church inside it for Catholics? That's exactly what you are asking the Vatican to do, albeit in the inverse.

Comparing the Vatican (which is a theocratic state which exists for the propagation of the faith, not worldy matters) to India (which is a secular state totally different from the structure and purpose of the Vatican) is ridiculous, and you know it.

[Romish_Papist]

"The Pope's clear agenda is to Evangelize India by whatever means possible and dont act like the Christians are all so very innocent."

Clear agenda??? By whatever means possible??? What on earth are you talking about? How can you possibly get what you said out of what the Pope said? You are seriously reaching for something to argue with aren't you?

[Romish_Papist]

"You dont condemn the Christian terrorist activities backed by the Church and killings of innocent Hindus in NE and you hold Delhi responsilble for what is going there. Thats rich!"

Show me something, ANYTHING stating proof that the Catholic Church backs any sort of Christian terrorist activities please. Either that, or drop the slander.

[Romish_Papist]

"none of that would be aviolation of the law ........as long as they dont convert."

Do they really need the government to hold their hands like that? Are they not capable of deciding that if what they hear sounds like truth, they may do as they with, convert or not? Seriously, it sounds like the gov't is saying, "sure, go listen, but if you convert because of what they say, then it's illegal." That just strikes me as paranoid.

[The Lion Roars]

The Hindus I work with seem to think so. Maybe you should get out more, instead of relying on bigoted stereotypes thrown out to rationalize legal suppression of religious speech.

No. You should get out more. Take a trip to india before you start passing judgements on that country and its people. The oppression in parts of our south has been well documented. It is ridiculous to claim that the bible belt is a place of religious tolerance and free speech.

[Romish_Papist]

So if attempts to convert a Hindu to Christianity are insults, are attempts to convert a Christian into a Hindu also insults? Or is it a one-way street?

[The Lion Roars]

What is your most precious and important Hindu Temple? Care to build a church inside it for Catholics? That's exactly what you are asking the Vatican to do, albeit in the inverse.

The Chief of the most precious hindu temple isnt going around ranting against christianity. The Pope and his missionaries are doing just that. The Catholic Church was responsible for the murder of 1000s of hindus in a brutal inquisition in Goa.

To compensate for all this the Vatican needs to open a hindu temple in its premises with the idols of all prominent hindu gods. The Pope and his council should come there and worship hindu gods as a show of tolerance of the hindu faith. The he should issue a formal apology to all hindus and jews in goa for the murders committed during the inquisition. Until that happens india should suspend ties with the Vatican

[The Lion Roars]

are attempts to convert a Christian into a Hindu also insults

Yes. Unless the hindus are attempting to reconvert

[Diddle E. Squat]

The oppression in parts of our south has been well documented. It is ridiculous to claim that the bible belt is a place of religious tolerance and free speech.

What oppression is taking place in 'parts of our south' nowadays? Be specific.

There are no laws against religious speech in the south or anywhere else in the US. When has anyone in recent years been denied free speech, arrested, or prosecuted in the American south for religious speech? Be specific.

In contrast several Indian states are contemplating or have passed laws restricting religious speech. This article makes that clear, as has been confirmed by several Indian/Hindu persons on this thread.

[Cronos]

The Tamils were neglected by India or by Sri Lanka? It looks like you are now a little carried away with your sudden anti-India tirade.

You're getting hysterical and losing perspective. How is whast I said an "anti-India tirade"? I stated that I also pointed out the alienation felt by the Tamils in the 60s. You can't deny that. But that has been licked slowly by Tamil Nadu's growing economic and social integration with the rest of India. -- what do you think the DMK and the AIADMK were formed for? Because the Dravidians felt beseiged by being forced to speak Hindi and YES, they did feel alienated -- power was kept in Delhi and the regions had no say. That changed in the 90s and Tamils would laugh at anyone telling them to break away from India. Ditto for the Punjab -- the Khalistan movement never had great support, but now support is nearly non-existant. Why this sudden change in punjabi/Sikh and Hindu Tamil reactions? Why the change in Bodoland? Because there is more devolution to the states and people fromt he regions have more of a say in Delhi -- with the decay of the Congress, regional parties DO have a say. And that will kill off the NE militant groups.

The problem is you dont want to see it because you wish to remain in denial. The media has already reported on the Church's involvement with the terrorists.

You aren't quoting facts, just tirades -- event he piece about aid beign denied to tsunami victims: where are the names of the supposed charities that did that? The so-called nuns? Nothing, just stories told. Are they true? Are they false? We've got no proof about this either way.

you quote the media but then too often turn around and call them pseudo-secularists. The media make news-splashes, they dont' corroborate facts, they just tell you what you want to believe.

[Cronos]

The plan was to demolish a temple and build a church on top.

Rot -- read the article. IT says that Andhra Pradesh unit of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) on Monday condemned the alleged preaching by Christian missionaries at Tirumala.

Christian missionaries should NOT go inside Hindu temple complexes -- but outside they are free to talk to people if those people want to listen -- just as Hindus are free to talk to people even IN the Vatican about Hinduism.

Then In a statement, the party general secretary K Lakshman claimed the government ignored BJP's complaints that the missionaries were trying to build a church at Tirumala.

I guess you understand what "claimed" means. The secretary was hyperventilating, like you guys by saying "He had demanded the arrest of those responsible for trying for conversions in the temple town." -- who was forcibly converting? Weren't those people just talking? If the believers going to Tirumala wanted to, they could debate back with the Christians. No talk about "demolishing a temple and building a church" except in your wild, paranoid imagination.

You are actualy lying when you say that -- because the next article shows your lie. The article says "Agitated by media reports emanating from India that the Andhra Pradesh Government was actively considering the application of a religious society to build a church atop the Tirumala Hills, the abode of Lord Venkateswara, these Indo-American organizations held an emergency meeting at Houston on Saturday (July 16) to discuss the issue."

No talk about destroying a temple and building a Church. What IS allegedly being talked about is building a kirk on the Tirumala mountains -- which, due to its religious significance to Hindus, would be WRONG, in my opinion. But this never really happened -- read the next statement Even though the news has been denied by the Andhra Pradesh Government that no such thing would be allowed at the Tirumala Hills, the Indo-American, mostly Hindu organizations, at the meeting decided to send a representative to Washington D.C. to submit a memorandum to the Prime Minister during his visit this week.

Your very own article shows your lies. Most likely these false rumors were spread by persons who wanted to rile up Hindus -- and looking at the reactions by Gengis and yourself, it seems to be working.

There is NO evidence at all that any Christian organisation wanted to build a Church on the Tirumala hills -- based on the very article YOU furnish as "proof", even less evidence that a Hindu temple would be destroyed to make way for the church. NO Christian organisation would do that in India -- that would be suicidal. THINK before you get led to believe something, or you'll be like a buffalo led by the ring stuck in her nose.

[Cronos]

Did the Pope apologise for the Goan inquisition?? Proof?

The Pope apologised for the excesses of the inquisition -- throughout the world. That's good enough for something that happened 4 centuries ago, coupled with the solemn vows that it would never happen again.

Who started the orgy of violence? I am sure Hindus didnt. When did the hindus burn Christians like the inquisition did to them?

There was no "orgy of violence" -- the Goan Hindu population has always been at least 60% of the overall population. There WAS persecution during the Inquisition, that's a fact, but no "orgy of violence". Also, Churches in Bombay were attacked by Marathas -- as retaliation. Should the Marathas apologize for somethign that happened 4 centuries ago? No. It was war and a different time and place. The acknowledgement that it happened and it should never happen again is good enough.

[Cronos]

Dont tell me that the British considered the pagan hindus in equal standing as the christians.

They did actually in most cases, because British rule was actually through Indian (mostly Hindu) proxies.

[Cronos]

In "secular" India not allowing the demolition of Hindu temples to make space for a Church or a Mosque is "religious persecution of the minorities".

Crap -- read the article, it talks about an "alleged" (note: undocumented, unproven statement that was denied by the authorities and for which no proof was given) to build a Church on the Tirumala hills, the allegation didn't even go as far as your allegation abotu destroying a temple to build a Church. You're getting hysterical and forgetting truth.

Seems like you have some kind of weird persecution complex. Yes, Hinduism would want to keep its followers and yes, people have the choice to choose whatever religion they want. The only way is to talk to people. You seem to want to ban meetings that would tell people about Hinduism because there would be a chance that that people who attend those meetings would convert to Hinduism, hence the meeting would be considered a proselytism scheme and the Hindu organisers would be, accordign to you, arrested for proselytising Hinduism. Is that really what you want?

[Cronos]

Look up the meaning of pagan -- it essentially means a non-Christian, a person not baptised. It's a description just like an Aryan.

[Cronos]

And if some Christians believe (and there are some who most certainly do, take my words for that) that Hindus are "Pagans" who will be buring in eternal hell unless they are "saved", then those Christians aren't worthy of my respect.

Really, and do you believe that unless Christians follow proper Hindu procedures, give offerings at the temples, visit the Ganga during their lifetime, bow down before the temples at the Hindu holy places, they will be reborn as some lower form of life?

[The Lion Roars]

There are no laws against religious speech in the south or anywhere else in the US. When has anyone in recent years been denied free speech, arrested, or prosecuted in the American south for religious speech? Be specific.

The laws are present elsewhere. It is next to impossible for hordes of hindu missionaries to descend in the South. In sharp contrast missionaries from the western world can easily enter india - usually on a tourist visa - and break the law with impunity. Laws prohibiting hindu and buddhist missionary activity are smarter. They deny these people entry into the country.

Again the local cultures are different. In India there is a strong tradition of welcoming guests and treating them well. Strangers are readily taken into homes. These gullible people need protection. In contrast in the Western World people take care of themselves. There in lies the difference.

By the way if anybody is denying free speech it is the Indian Catholics. Did you see the demonstrations to ban the movie - The Da Vinci Code!!!! The Indian Government almost succumbed to it. If anything the hindus go out of their way to appease foreign people and religions.