Posted on 05/16/2006 8:12:33 AM PDT by Esther Ruth
I was referring to the supernatural aspects of the story. I'm not aware of any compelling extrabiblical evidence for any of the miracles described in the Bible.
You're most welcome. I appreciate your sharing your understanding.
I think you have it backwards. Those who believe in fantastic stories having to do with the supernatural are the ones who bear the burden of providing a lot of credible evidence before the claims are even taken seriously. When somebody tells me that there was a person who could do this or that kind of miracle, I automatically assume that the claim is bunk, and so should any rational person. If significant amounts of strong credible evidence emerges for the claim, then it should be examined to see if there are any other reasonable explanations.
Christianity, in my opinion, hasn't gotten to this point yet. All we have are ancient stories written many years after the supposed supernatural events occured. There are also a few extrabiblical, non-christian early references to Christians and the object of their worship. This is nowhere near enough evidence to believe in the literal truth of the Christian story, in my opinion.
True. There is always the danger that people will become corrupt after they are given power.
Wise man :0)
No-one would dare ascribe the power to forgive sin to any human being, unless Christ had in fact given his Apostles that power.
But as Christ said to Peter and the Apostles: Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven. Whose sins you retain, they are retained.
As per my previous long screed: God relies on humans to feed the poor, feed the hungry etc - and he places an extra responsibility on the Apostles to enact what we call the Sacraments - those miraculous acts of Christ that are the root of the Church: making present the Body and Blood of Christ in the Mass, the act of Baptism and the Sacrament of Confession (or Reconciliation), amongst others.
Catholics believe that Christ meant us to take Him seriously when He gave the Apostles these awesome responsibilities. He chose the Apostles - they had no discernable moral superiority, and certainly don't appear to have been the bravest and brightest. But that He did indeed choose these weak, wilful men to enact His Sacraments is evident from the Gospel record.
What demands for validity do you make on the stories about the lives of the emperors from, say, about 100 BC to about 200 BC?
What demands for validity do you make on the stories about the lives of the emperors from, say, about 100 BC to about 200 AD?
Oh boy.... What I am saying is that the more noise you make the more popualar the movie will be. It is self defeating... but if you want to keep giving him free publicity then go right ahead. Dan Brown loves people like you.
I would disbelieve any stories that claim those emperors performed miracles or were divine.
Why would you give up your Faith because of the actions of a few deluded or evil human beings? THEY are not the entire Church, and if you believe that, then you've bought the whole bill of goods created by a media that has hated the Church ever since it began standing firm against Abortion, and has tried to find a way to reduce her credibility on the issues of the practice of homosexuality, and now homosexual 'marriage'.
Too many people made BIG mistakes, but it was nowhere near the entire Church, and it doesn't change the Truth of her teachings.
I advise you to read Lee Stroebel’s book Case for Christ. He states the historicity of Jesus, the manuscript evidence, the physical evidence and the just plain common sense of the New Testament claims. Do serious study on the matter and you will come to the conclusion Jesus was not a liar or lunatic but Lord….. or worship your own intellect with the blinders on because of pride or hate. Sorry for the tone but most skeptics come to the debate woefully ignorant , spouting clichés and half truths they heard on TV.
I did not lose my faith, there is a big difference between faith and the church. I simply will not support those running the church by giving them my time, money or efforts.
Faith, I have lots of faith.
I see. Have you ever believed any story about a miracle?
What's-his-name's story thrills folks who don't chose to believe the words of the New Testament.
They will give him plenty of publicity.
This is a rational and respectable point of view.
During the time of the Roman Empire, Christ would not perform miracles for show - though He did heal the sick, give sight to the blind etc as acts of mercy and compassion He would NOT "display". Satan tempted him to do this very thing, asking Him to jump off the Temple roof - but no.
And so it continues to the present day. God seems to be very careful not to force the Human soul to believe in His existance. He appears to be trying to grow something in us, a kind of strength or trust, which would not grow if He performed obvious miracles for us.
If you would know Christ, simply pray to Him sincerely to reveal His work in your life. He will, friend.
Alternatively you could come to Faith by doing what my mother did - she counted up the discarded crutches at Lourdes :0)
Oh, yes. In fact, I believed in the Bible for a time.
Thank you for recognizing that, sincerely. Often, when I present my skepticism to Christians, the response is that I am rebellious, or ignorant, or proud, or that I "hate God." None of these are true. I simply cannot believe in fantastic stories that lack fantastic evidence. Just my view.
I'm sorry, but posting a shot of the cover of the Communist Manifesto while discussing the Da Vinci Code could get me fired for inappropriate laughter.
Sure, I get the "just a book" connection you are making, but please, I don't think Dan Brown is anywhere close to fomenting world revolution, and the entire hullabaloo over this book is an invention by 1) professional victims, and 2) the promoters of this film.
Those in Group 1 are making life very simple to those in Group 2, and I'm sure they appreciate it immensely.
It is hiliarious that a, what, 10 or 15 year old nonfiction book on the same topic is being ignored (no calls yet for its burning) while a beach read/summer flick is being castigated so.
If this book/movie rises to the level of a hate crime against Christianity, then clearly the religious teachings against homosexuality are also hate crimes. Is that what you guys want?
Perspective, folks, it's what's for dinner.
I don't know where you got the impression that the Catholic Church looks upon Her Saints as 'deities'. There is only one Deity, that is God, in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Saints are merely men and women who have been outstanding examples of Faithfulness throughout the ages, and people whose Faith we try to emulate. We pray to them, NOT as replacements for God, but as intercessors to Him for us. After all, they're a lot closer to Him, than we are, and every little bit of prayer helps!
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