Posted on 05/15/2006 4:13:02 PM PDT by devane617
Edited on 05/15/2006 4:38:26 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.
Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim
Simple, rational, linear thinking.
But who needs that when you can just join the Bash Bush party. It's the "it" thing to do these days, don't'cha know.
Actually you got that wrong. Another poster quoted four principles to Howlin -- including "Party uber alles" and "Party like its 1939". Howlin replied to that post. I did also -- and called the poster out on the Nazi reference. The poster then claimed that "1939" and "Party uber alles" was NOT a Nazi reference exceot in my mind. Whatever.
"You can check Michelle Malkin's blog archives - she wrote at least one article about Myers' appointment and qualifications (lack of) for the job."
Yes, she did write some choice words about Myers. I think, reading between the lines, that Michelle was intimating that Myers would do just enough to fail.
ok, obviously something other than immigration is bothering you, so I'm not going to engage in a virtual reality shouting match with someone is only wants an argument. Good day.
But, a Landscaping company that thrives on illegals will be out of business. A company that provides illegals to pick fruit will be out of business, as well as a janitorial company or hotel.
But, if we announce that as of July 1st; Immigration agents will be enforcing the laws already on the books; you can bet the farm that HR will 'review' the payroll at each of these companies that are now flying below the radar. If you hired Jose, and suspected he was illegal; and you knew you could lose your company without demanding proof of legal citizenship; wouldn't you fire him? If the demand for jobs dries up; the illegals will have no choice but to return home, then they can come back legally - with everyone's blessings.
You see, by ignoring the existing fines (already on the books) and ignoring existing Federal crimes, we are encouraging companies to look the other way. This creates jobs, and encourages more illegals to pour across our borders; bringing along with them crime, drugs and other burdens to our society.
I'm pretty sure I heard both Tancredo and Dobbs DIS the speech after the Pres' presentation this evening.
That disputes what Texas is saying...
"What did he say would happen to employers who hire illegals? I think about 4 or 5 companies a year get busted. What is going to change? Where is the penalties? You make it a 5 year offense to hire illegals, the problem is over"
He said they're going after them more agressively and will continue to do so. I agree their needs to be penalites for hiring illegals - perhaps a large fine the 1st time and jail time after that (and/or a much larger fine/illegal) would go a long way in helping to resolve the problem. As I mentioned, there are some issues due to the laws that were passed in the 90's that I mentioned and all of the forged documents - -his suggestion of tamper-proof biometric IDs could help here.
I feel for GW, he's caught between a rock and a hard place.......or an open border and an immigration issue to be more specific
Time to holster the pitchforks IMO
To you, but also to all who believe paying a fine can't be the punishment for breaking our immigration rules --
If you break tax laws, the punishment is almost always a fine, not jail time. If you break traffic laws, most of the time you just pay a fine.
Now, I agree that in the theoretical world, they should pay a fine for breaking the law, and then they should be sent home to Mexico or wherever.
But if you ARE going to let them get in line for citizenship, it makes sense not to send them home, because, while we hate the idea that they are here, they have proven their intention of integrating into our society.
Under Bush's plan, NO foreigner who is waiting to become a citizen will wait ONE MINUTE LONGER than they are today. They simply will have to wait where they are, while these people who are here illegally will be allowed to stay here under a work visa until they qualify for citizenship. And when they do, it will be AFTER those who were waiting legally.
They are being put ahead in line for the "legal work visa" stuff, and I don't like that, but from a practical perspective sending well-settled people to a country where they have no ties, no place to go, and no contacts, just so we can let some other people (good though they were to wait legally) come take their place, people who don't know OUR culture, don't know the jobs, maybe don't know the language, it just seems like a lot of hassle just to stick it to the people who really didn't commit some great offence -- they just came where they wanted to live. You could move to Texas tomorrow and set up a new life. They did the same thing.
I can't believe I'm defending this 5-year stuff. I was so against it when it first came out. But I've talked to some people, did some reading, did some praying, did some thinking, and it just seems that, once you've decided you are going to let them in the line at all, there's no point in throwing them out of the country. It doesn't help us, it doesn't help them.
I'd be a lot more selective though than just "5 years". Bush said he wanted it more selective -- I believe him, but I don't know how we will be more selective, because government is pretty bad at stuff.
But I'm willing to give in on the 5-year point, with ALL the safeguards Bush mentioned, IF in return we get serious about policing the borders, and kicking out those here 5 years or less.
I think the Senate bill had a path for the 2-5 year people. I'd rather have it be 6 years, not 5. 5 is the MINIMUM I'd accept if I got everything else.
I am glad the guest worker program HE proposes requires them to leave the country at the end. The Senate bill I think lets them stay at the end and apply for citizenship.
And this time this is no Kerry to motivate conservative voters.
"Nice try. Pluck my magic twanger, froggie."
Is that legal?
"No, we're not. Almost every American citizen was born here."
Please. The nation was created by immigrants kicking the crap out of the indians. dispute that.
I've read multiple reports that they both liked the speech. On multiple threads.
Exactly. I don't have any idea of the percentages, but a huge majority of Republican activists I know are a) well informed b) deeply, even passionatly concerned and c) getting really angry about being alternately ignored and patronized. Down here on the ground, it looks like the Republican leadership is heading the party directly at a huge cliff, and they have no intention of slowing down or changing course.
No
They both had huge problems with the speech, especially Dobbs.
Hispanics aren't muslims.
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