Posted on 05/15/2006 4:13:02 PM PDT by devane617
Edited on 05/15/2006 4:38:26 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I searched but did not see a thread already open for tonights speech. I think this is the most important speech the President will probably make for the remainder of his term.
Mod Note:
This could turn into a whack-a-troll thread. All immigration trolls that would like to participate should post here. It'll be interesting to see if we mods can whack the trolls faster than they can sign up new accounts.
Jim
I agree. However, that doesn't make him right on this issue.
Why do you ping Jim so often? Have you noticed that it hasn't had much success in getting people banned? Really....it's quite childlike to always be calling the teacher when someone says something you don't like.
But this is my country too.
Well, stay home and contemplate your navel in November.
And while you're at it, you might as well begin building that bomb shelter too. And plan on HilaryCare and tax increases and a decimated military too. Bring back Shinseki.....is that your hope.
you write: ...I have not liked how illegals ,some that have been here for years, have been treated or talked about on this board.
You are absolutely right. Illegals should NOT BE DENIGRATED.
But I reserve the right to take umbrage with our leaders whom have refused to uphold the laws that they are sworn to enforce -- and that against the will of the American people.
How is that a consolation? Vicomte13 is a very reasonable poster and although what he writes may be uncomfortable to some, it is political reality.
To save the republican majority in congress, Bush had to advocate a security fence. He didn't do that and even insisted that any border security solutions be coupled with what many consider Amnesty-Lite.
In the sanctuary cities that is pretty much how it's handled unless they find a large drop house and even then it's catch and release.
If a bracero can pick 100 heads of lettuce an hour, and gets paid 5 dollars an hour, the cost of picking a head of lettuce is five cents.
I bought a head of letuce yesterday for $1.28.
If the grower had paid an American THIRTY DOLLARS AN HOUR to pick the same lettuce, ($60,000/ year.), the price of a head of lettuce would go up by 25 cents, to $1.53.
This would stop you from eating lettuce? Lord, just how much of the stuff do you eat?
Well, you've been here a month and a half.....not exactly a track record.
What did you expect? It wasn't as weak as I thought it would be. When Congress gets done with the bill you will need to be reminded that there is some connection somewhere between it and this speech. He gave the issue the importance of a specially requested speech. Apart from something to do with the WoT I can't remember one.
When this fizzes out and the problem becomes far worse in a couple of years this will be his record that can't be escaped. In that respect it was good.
"The overwhelming position on these threads has been to build a security fence and go after employers."
That sums up the gist of this entire thread. The posting can stop now.
Response not just for YOU, but for all those who are upset with guest worker, and think we should just send them all home tomorrow.
Cracking down on Employers is third on the list because, while it is important, it's MORE important to secure the border, and it's hard to crack down on employers when they need workers to survive.
As much as we like to be upset at the idea of "jobs americans won't do" (and I wrote a newspaper column ridiculing that idea, so I'm one of "we"), we do NOT have enough americans looking for work to fill 12 million jobs tomorrow.
And we need to employ over 2 million people each year in NEWLY CREATED jobs in order to keep our economy growing.
So for now, we do NEED a fair number of those workers to stay around. Not all of them, and not at an unfair wage, but if we made those 12 million people vanish tomorrow, it would be a major blow to our economy.
Sure, we'd recover -- we are AMERICANS. But it wouldn't happen overnight, and in the end we'd endure up to 6 years of bad times before we started growing our economy again.
And while we struggled to harvest our food, pick up trash, flip burgers, clean our offices, watch our own children, do our own gardening, and pay twice as much for housing, those 12 million, along with their wives and children, would be suffering back in Mexico, seething in resentment and anger.
Which I wouldn't care about except that having the country next door to ours HATE us isn't a useful thing when you are fighting a global war on terror.
Give me liberty or give me death. Betwixt and between, I'll consider temporary alliances with this GOP of yours, or this Jim Robinson of whom you speak, as long as they are fellow-travelers worthy of it.
Heads Up
Fox News
Greta Van Susteren is on the Mexican border.
Margaritas on the house. LOL
No, sir. My remark that I would like to deport Larry King had nothing whatever to do with Israel or Jewishness or anything related. You are one who mentioned Israel here.
I appreciate your clarifying that you are calling anti-Semitism at me for something they you only dreamt up in your own mind.
Now I will call something on you: You either cynically use race and ethnicity to score cheap shots or you have a sick obsession with those issues continuously oozing out of your brain and you just can't help yourself.
I don't have any problem with Jews but I have contempt and disgust for people who use (and cheapen) that dark history by a constant willingness to wave it in someone face to score debating points.
I find it particularly repugnant when they embed their hateful suggestions in sly innuendo rather than direct statement.
I'm not trying to get anyone banned - it's just a long thread and he might want to know what's going on.
Yes that is a huge point. That's a change too compared to previous statements, and big beef I've had too. Why the heck should those immigrants, potential citizens, who've actually OBEYED our laws be pushed back in line because the illegals, mostly criminals in their countries, broke our laws and lucked into amnesty. You don't do favors for criminals, you incarcerate or deport them, period and show preferential treatment to the good ones who actually obeyed our laws. That's a big part of Bush's speech that was GREAT for legal immigrants. There are so many people being critical of Bush's speech and I have to wonder if they really listened to it because he said most of the things that real conservatives have been wanting to hear on the border. I've been well and truly PO'd at Bush for his total lack of spine when it comes to the border, but what he said on that speech tonight was more like listening to a foreign policy speech from him, as it had the same kind of spine he demonstrates in those speeches.
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