Gee may your ego and talking points have a wonderful day....
Posted on 04/28/2006 1:47:54 PM PDT by SDGOP
Prominent, respectable Evangelical Christians have told me, not for quotation, that millions of their co-religionists cannot and will not vote for Romney for president solely because he is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If Romney is nominated and their abstention results in the election of Hillary Rodham Clinton, that's just too bad. The evangelicals are adamant, saying there is no way Romney can win them over.
(Excerpt) Read more at chicagosuntimes.com ...
...dum dum dum dum dum
Aw, Billy, you know the southeast is not part of the east coast. Just like Florida isn't in the South. And parts of California aren't California. And the UP is like a mini-Canada.
After reading through this thread I am convinced more than ever that America, religiously speaking, has lost its discernment.
There was a time in this country when the majority knew the Bible well enough to know that Jesus warned against false prophets. They, at one time, knew that Mormonism is a complete fraud with a false prophet as its founder.
All I can say about all you folks fawning over Mormonism on this thread is you do not know your Bibles.
FReepers rant on and on about the founder of Islam's many wives. You won't catch them voting for a mooslimb either. But they are quite as an oyster when it comes to the founder of Mormonism.
Mohammad can hardly hold a candle to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.
You rake us who know our Bibles over the coal because we believe Joseph Smith is a false prophet, why don't you do the same with those who claim Mohammed is a false prophet?
No, I won't be voting for Romney.
Not really. I would make no such declaration and stick to the ISSUES. (My issues would not get me elected in New York city, the S.F. Bay, or some liberal big city haven.)
The problem for most is that the media and the left is allowed to make such things the issue. A lot of my conservative/right-wing friends need to learn this.
An atheist would surely not get elected in the Republican primary by bashing the religious folks, having liberal cronies, sucking up to the media or taking leftist positions on the ISSUES.
I would make reporters travel on their own dime and only allow them the same access to my campaign as any other registered voter. (I might make rare exceptions for certain people I could trust... Les Kinsolving, Mancow Muller, Brit Hume, etc.)
Thank you. I wasn't aware of all this. I'll have to do a little more research on this.
"The Church opposes abortion and counsels its members not to submit to or perform an abortion except in the rare cases where, in the opinion of competent medical counsel, the life or good health of the mother is seriously endangered or where the pregnancy was caused by rape and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother. Even then it should be done only after counseling with the local presiding priesthood authorityand after receiving divine confirmation through prayer.
You start with the premise that human life is a gift from God and that all human life is sacred, and that the taking of life thru abortion is killing that which was created by God. When you make an exception you are allowing for the purposeful killing of that which God created. Some very good pro-life people would argue for allowing abortion when the life of the mother is at stake (and I understand that argument), but this is inconsistent with the pro-life position. When you add in the "good health" clause you basically open up abortion to anyone who can get a doctor to say that the pregnancy will negatively impact the "good health" (mental etc.) of the mother. When you add the "rape clause", again you are saying it is ok to murder a pre-born under certain circumstances, and this is wrong. It then allows the decision to be made between the mother and the local bishop after prayer. This last clause is extremely perilous because it allows the decision to abort to be made by individuals (God does not confirm a decision to murder). That sounds like "choice" to me.
Compare the LDS position with the Catholic Church position and I think you will see why I say the LDS position is weak. The Catholic Church has always condemned abortion as a grave evil. Christian writers from the first-century author of the Didache to Pope John Paul II in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae ("The Gospel of Life") have maintained that the Bible forbids abortion, just as it forbids murder.
In 1995 Pope John Paul II declared that the Church’s teaching on abortion "is unchanged and unchangeable. Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his successors, I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church" (Evangelium Vitae 62).
I don't know, but mandating that someone purchase health care-or else face the wrath of the government-doesn't seem like a very Reaganesque concept to me.
Am I missing something?
It is greatly frown upon yet one has freewill, in these circumstances.
It is rarely one would as LDS would choose that option, most would carry to full term and adopt out the child if where the pregnancy was caused by rape and produces serious emotional trauma in the mother.
How we can help (helping non members to)
http://www.providentliving.org/ses/birthmother/wecanhelp/0,12266,2181-1,00.html
The Church does everything with in its power to continue
life!
Some churches has memebers who will openly defie the Chruch position by being pro abortion and still can be members, this would not be accepted in the LDS Church!
"Occasionally, there is some pretty nasty stuff said about the Mormons here, sad to say. "
If you lived in an LDS prevalent community like I do (Vegas), you would understand.
"I used to think I'd have no problem voting for a devout Mormon. Then I talked to my Pastor who was raised in the Mormon church. I just asked him why is he not a Mormon anymore. 4 hours later when he was done telling me all he went through as a Mormon....I'd have a hard time voting for Romney."
Yup. If only I could tell the things I've gone through with Mormons here in Vegas. Except I'd get banned.
They gamble too much!:)
"They gamble too much!:)"
They were very much a part of the casino scene, Harry Reid is an example. That is one of the reasons for the nickname "The Mormon Mafia". But not the only reason.
That does not change the fact that the LDS Church statement on abortion is weak and allows for abortion.
Where I am from NYC we are greatly opposed so even the option is there it would be a brave soul that would opt for it!
"By any test set forth in the New Tesatment the LDS Church is Christian. In fact, it is more reliably Christian than many if not all liberal Protestant denominations."
Then explain magic underwear, getting your own planet and becoming a god, and having to call out your wife's name. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you ought to look it up.
you should realize that Harry Reid is a disappointment to the LDS I saw him at our church recently and maybe two said hi to him I was tongue tied maybe just as well the Lord stop me, it is His Church, when Orrin is here everyone welcomes him!
If the LDS are gambling they are not practicing LDS and it looks like Reid is in trouble their with all his lefty remarks so he might not survive the next term!
Mormonism fits all of the earmarks of a cult and has since it’s inception never been recognized as part of biblical Christianity. There is a plethora of solid Christian apologetics that deal with the cult of Mormonism; Dr. Walter Martin’s classic: “Kingdom of the Cults” (to name one) provides a solid overview of Mormonism, its founder and doctrine, and concludes that based upon every criteria; it is a cult.
Mormonism has not and will not change what it believes or teaches. While speaking at the "Worlds of Joseph Smith Conference" in Washington, D.C. on May 7, 2005, Robert Millet (author of "A Different Jesus? The Christ of the Latter-day Saints") said: "Strictly speaking, nothing in the LDS doctrine of Christ has changed in the last 175 years." (cf. pg. 139 "A Different Jesus? The Christ of the Latter-day Saints" http://www.mrm.org/multimedia/text/a-different-jesus.html).
Mormonism is wrong regarding the WORK of Christ:
According to Mormonism; salvation and entrance into “glory” is not found through faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work on Calvary alone, it must be earned: "It is the celestial glory which we seek. It is in the presence of God we desire to dwell. It is a forever family in which we want membership. Such blessings must be earned" (Thomas Monson, first counselor to Gordon Hinckley "An Invitation to Exaltation," Ensign, May 1988, p. 53). Mormonism teaches the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and faith in Him alone is not sufficient; salvation must be “earned”/obtained through works. This is not biblical, neither is it Christianity.
Mormonism is wrong regarding the PERSON of Christ
The Jesus of Mormonism did not eternally exist as God, instead he became one! (Jesus, as) "Jehovah," "grew in knowledge and power to the point where he became 'like unto God.'" (ibid. pg. 73). Translation: Jesus did not always exist as God, he “became a god”.
"Modern revelation attests that Jesus was the firstborn spirit-child of God the Father." ("A Different Jesus? The Christ of the Latter-day Saints" pg. 73).
While Mr. Millet states that "Jesus was born of a virgin" (ibid. pg. 63), "Jesus of Nazareth is literally the Son of God, the only Begotten of the Father in the flesh. He is not the Son of the Holy Ghost, nor is he the Son of the Father in some mystical, metaphorical sense; he is the Son of Almighty God."(ibid. Pg. 74) In a footnote he says, "While Latter-day Saints clearly believe that Jesus is the Son of God the Father, there is no authoritative doctrinal statement within Mormonism that explains how the conception of Jesus was accomplished."
The above statement is patently false; LDS prophets have in point of fact specifically explained how the conception of Jesus was carried out. The respected LDS prophet Ezra Taft Benson, stated, "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.7).
The Word of God teaches and biblical Christianity holds that, Jesus Christ’s incarnation was the direct result of a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:34-35), NOT physical sex between God and Mary ! This is in direct contradiction to Mormon doctrine which teaches Jesus is the direct result of a physical/sexual/biological union between the being they worship as “God”. And Mary! According to Mr. Millet; Mormons believe and teach that Jesus was not “begotten by the Holy Ghost,” rather his incarnation was the result of physical sex between God and Mary! This is so wildly contrary to the Word of God and to biblical Christianity that it hurts.
So that there can be no misunderstanding on what Mormonism teaches and believes about the matter; at least three Mormon manuals directly address the incarnation of Jesus Christ and come to the same doctrinal conclusion stated by Ezra Taft Benson and Mr. Millet: Gospel Principles, stated in its 1985 edition, "Thus, God the Father became the literal father of Jesus Christ. Jesus was born of a mortal mother and an immortal father" (ibid pg.57).
"[Jesus Christ] was willing to make payment because of his great love for mankind, and he was able to make payment because he lived a sinless life and because he was actually, literally, biologically the Son of God in the flesh" (Messages for Exaltation 1967 edition pp.378-379).
A Mormon family home evening manual, (pages 125-126) published in 1972 by the "Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" deals with the incarnation. The information is provided in order to "help you and your children understand that Jesus is God's Only Begotten Son." Under the title of "A MODERN PROPHET'S ANSWER," Joseph F. Smith, Sixth LDS president is quoted; "Now we are told in Scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father." On the next page his thought continued, "We must come down to the simple fact that God Almighty was the Father of His Son Jesus Christ. Mary, the virgin girl, who had never known mortal man, was his mother. God by her begot His son Jesus Christ. And he was born into the world with power and intelligence like that of his Father."
To make sure there is no doubt about what is being said (That Jesus is the direct result of a physical/sexual/biological union between the being they worship as “God”. And Mary), an illustration depicting a man and a woman labeled "Daddy" plus (+) "Mommy" with lines connecting to a drawing of a girl labeled, "You." (Daddy plus Mommy equals You). Is followed by another diagram which reads "Our Heavenly Father" plus "Mary" with lines connected to the word "Jesus" (Heavenly Father plus Mary equals Jesus).
Therefore, according to Joseph F. Smith, the Sixth LDS president, as cited and illustrated by official Mormon literature specifically designed to teach families and children what Mormonism believes about the bodily incarnation of Jesus; the “Jesus” of Mormonism is the direct result of a biological/sexual union between God and Mary (It should be noted that the oldest manuals printed in 1967 and 1972, are in agreement with the one printed in 1985).
According to biblical Christianity, the Word of God, and the doctrine of the hypostatic union (Jesus is 100% (fully) God and 100% (fully) man in one person); the Jesus of the Bible remained sinless throughout the time He was incarnate (God in the flesh): “For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.” (Hebrews 4:15)
“He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2Corinthians 5:21) (also see 1Peter 2:22, 1John 3:5) While the 1967 edition of Messages for Exaltation says; "[Jesus Christ] was willing to make payment because of his great love for mankind, and he was able to make payment because he lived “a sinless life” and because he was actually, literally, biologically the Son of God in the flesh" (pp.378-379). Mormonism does not believe or teach that Christ was completely sinless:
"But while he was tabernacling in the flesh, he was more or less contaminated with fallen nature. While he was here, in a body that his mother Mary bore him, he was more or less connected with and influenced by this nature that we have received. According to the flesh, he was the seed of Adam and Eve, and suffered the weaknesses and temptations of his fellow mortals" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:95-96).
The Jesus of Mormonism is not eternal; he became a god. His incarnation was not a result of the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit but the direct result of physical sex between God and Mary. He is also incapable of saving mankind because he is not sinless but was “more or less contaminated with fallen nature.” The only conclusion one can draw from the above is that the “Jesus” of Mormonism is NOT the Jesus of the Bible!
There is one more issue we need to mention concerning the person of Christ; biblical Christianity holds that The Lord Jesus Christ is the third person of the Holy trinity this foundational Christian doctrine is admittedly not held by Mormonism: "if an acceptance of the doctrine of the Trinity makes one a Christian, then of course Latter-day Saints are not Christians."(Robert Millet, "A Different Jesus? The Christ of the Latter-day Saints"pg. 171).
Mr. Millets assessment is in point of fact true, “Latter-day Saints are not Christians;” denial of the biblical doctrine of the Trinity, of necessity results in accepting one of the following heresies; modalism, henotheism, or polytheism, none of which are Christian or biblical.
Is Mormonism Christian, and the Jesus of Mormonism the Jesus of the Bible? The answer is “no” but that did not seem to bother President Gordon Hinckley: "there are some of other faiths who do not regard us as Christians. This is not important. How we regard ourselves is what is important." (President Gordon Hinckley, 1998 (ibid. pg. 171).
Unfortunately Sandra, based upon official Mormon doctrine; the “Jesus” of Mormonism, the “Jesus” you worship and follow is not the Lord Jesus Christ, the Jesus of the Bible. What/who you are following and worshiping is not The Lord Jesus Christ but an imposter; a pseudo christ. you are worshipping another “Jesus”, a false jesus, the product of fallen man’s imaginings.
How Mormons perceive themselves is not what counts but how the doctrine of Mormonism conforms to the inerrant Word of God, the Bible. As I have briefly noted from the above Mormon sources; the Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of the Bible therefore Mormonism is not biblical or “Christian”.
"If the LDS are gambling they are not practicing LDS and it looks like Reid is in trouble their with all his lefty remarks so he might not survive the next term!"
Oh, there are plenty of Mormons in the casino business. Harry Reids sons included.
Why do you keep trying to paint me and other LDS with the dingy harry brush?
He is NOT the norm!
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