Some Teachers Say Merit Pay Plan Is a Bitter Apple [FL E-Comp Plan]

The Ledger ^ | March 15, 2006 | Julia Crouse

[summer]

WINTER HAVEN -- The modern reality of teaching in Florida schools makes Bess Lott, a 32-year veteran, wonder whether she'd choose teaching as a career if she had it to do over.

Constant paperwork, comparatively low pay and FCAT pressure are all headaches, said the third-grade teacher at Winter Haven's Snively Elementary School of Choice.

But e-comp, the Department of Education's performance pay proposal, is the final straw, she said.

"They're talking about our salaries," she said....

[summer]

This is an interesting article. I only posted an excerpt but it's worth your time to read the entire article if you are interested in this issue.

[stacytec]

Seems that this would just cause "teaching for the test". I'm in favor of incentive plans but perhaps there are better ways to measure a teacher's performance than the results of a standardized test.

[summer]

I feel like FL wants, so much, for all students to succeed, and that is the motivation of FL officials behind this plan. And, when they make their case about merit pay, my instict is to support merit pay because what's wrong with rewarding the best teachers?

But, FL is acting on the premise, supported by research, that the teacher is the most important and influential party in a student's life. However, those who oppose comp pay, do not buy that line of research as much as FL does.

Case in point, as here is a little inside joke among teachers at an inner city school: These teachers (at an "F" school) say they know how to bring their school's grade up to an "A" overnight -- just give them the students from an "A" school.

You might laugh at this, but here is their point: If you switched students at an "F" and "A" school, but left the same teaching faculty in place, would the "A" students suddenly become "F" students? No. Nor would the "F" students suddenly become "A" students.

That is the reason many teachers oppose merit pay -- because the teachers in the affluent, wealthy, all white schools will get merit pay year after year, even if they do absolutely nothing because those kids' parents are also teaching those kids. Meanwhile, many teachers work their butts off in inner city schools, and while some improvement does happen, it doesn't come without a lot more work than teachers in better in schools will ever do.

BTW, experienced teachers do not flock to the low performing schools. Teachers with lots of experience stay in the better schools and do not move. It is the new teachers who are always forced into the toughest teaching situations. And, it is those teachers who will be last on the published list of good teachers. Not a good way to encourage teachers (as part of this E Comp plan wants to publish names of teachers). If you have 20 years of experience and can't get your students to improve, OK, maybe your name should be on a list. But you're starting out, the last thing you want is to be told you're a failure before you even start.

[summer]

Sorry about that typo: instict = instinct

[stacytec]

Agreed, there is a lot to be said about the degree in which neighborhood and family play a roll in a student's performance.

[summer]

I think this would be agreat incentive plan, and I am not kidding: Fire all administrators, and allow teachers to run schools on a rotating basis. Increase teachers' pay substantially after saving all that money from administrator salaries, and extend the school day and year. Allow teachers one hour for lunch under this new plan, and give incentives like green stamps for merchandise to parents in inner city schools, so they can start helping their kids succeed. OK, no one is going to do any of that, but that is where I would begin!

[summer]

Thanks. :)

[Citizen Tom Paine]

The problem with merit pay for teachers and for government workers are the "measures" that are established to measure the worker's performance. In the private sector, in the case of a salesperson, measures can be determined, e.g., how much did that person sell in a quarter? in a year? In some instances the time frame may be too short.

What measure is used for a teacher? I have maintained that teachers should be evaluated by students after they have graduated. All of you can look back, and recall your best teacher and the worst ones. I don't think in most instances it is possible to say an the end of a year. Maybe after 5 years.

Now think for a minute about how one would write performance measures up for a spare tire. In one year, it may have done nothing. However, when the day comes that you need one, you are glad that you have one in your trunk. A spare tire is a good example for positions in the police, fire and other deparcments. IMHO

[summer]

I am very much in favor of K-12 students evaluating teachers on a teacher report card. I am also in favor of teachers evaluting administrators. I think this kind of feedback would improve a lot of situations immediately. Thanks for your thoughtful post.

[volchef]

You are correct. They already do teach to the test. I have my kids in private schools because the public ones in Florida really are a joke. Jeb Bush, bless him, is a great governor who really wants a better educational system for the kids of Florida, but the FCAT is failing because the teachers are only teaching to the FCAT. I know at our districted elementary school (we have many friends whose kids attend) that there are psychologists on school grounds the day of the FCAT to help kids who are feeling overwhelmed by the pressure. In ELEMENTARY school. Geez.

Also, we had 1 yes 1 high school in our county receive an A grade after FCAT testing. However, when looking at the numbers only 53% of kids could read at or above their grade level. If that gets you an A rating I'm afraid to see what a B school is.

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

My Stepson took a job in one of the F schools(in SC) and after three years of "teaching them to be polite once they are in prison" got fed up and joined the Army. Many of his students in the HS level were functionally illiterate and did not give a s--- about learning.

[SoftballMominVA]

Interesting article--thanks for posting it.

As another poster has already said, the problem here is that high-performing students are often high-performing because of the enrichment given at home. Parents in middle to upper SES catagories expect so much from their kids that do not leave schooling only for the teachers. These are parents taking their kids to historical sites, arranging extra tutoring when needed, supervising homework and just having an atmosphere at home positive to learning. For this system to work, there has to be something in place that recognizes that a years worth of growth looks different in each kid.

In addition, I was shocked to learn that the FCATs mean little to the kids except in grades 3 and 10. That is total BS. If the test means that much to the school and teacher, it needs to mean quite a bit to the student. The FCAT's need to become somewhat of an exit exam from grade to grade. That will stop the random bubbling in right there in all but your most hard-core test haters.

Overall, I'm not opposed to the idea of merit pay, nor am I opposed to getting rid of teachers whose students consistently under perform. But there needs to be a balance between the poor and wealthy schools so that the low performing schools don't have a revolving door in the front admitting and releasing brand new teachers.

[cbkaty]

This would be a non-issue if parents would simply put their children in private school and abandon the failed public system..... OK..now flame away!

[summer]

Jeb Bush, bless him, is a great governor who really wants a better educational system for the kids of Florida,

Yes, I agree; and he does better for kids. I believe he is very sincere and genuine about his desire to improve education.

[Nextrush]

I make under 40-thousand a year here in PA to pay people who teach at an average salary of around 50-thosuand. I don't buy this "comparatively low pay." That's National Education Association propaganda. Parents would make a big difference in their children's education if they cared more. If they cared to the point of personal sacrifice, they would teach at home and we could save a lot on teacher salaries then. Oops, I let some truth slip out. Its easy to blame administrators, but the salaries and benefits of all the people who work in schools make up over 60 percent of budgets around here. Some people who work in schools only pay $24 a month for medical and dental benefits around here. That has to change, too. It costs a lot more in the real world of taxpayers out there.

[summer]

I'm not going to flame you, because I think it is very important to have many options and choices in education. Thanks for your post.

[summer]

Believe me, you could fire half the adminsitrators in some districts and never know the difference -- and move into smaller buildilngs. These districts spend money on adminiistrator salaries and office buildings like crazy. Teachers are always last on their list in terms of who might get a raise.

[cbkaty]

I usually get the lame excuse that "we can't afford" private school....blah, blah, blah... I know...I used to believe the same thing.

When I was finally convinced (10 years ago) that my son's education was more important than a new car or vacation....it finally dawned on me that I could afford private school.

[q_an_a]

the flaw in the Pay portion of this story is that a teacher with 20 years of work history could be earning 50K+ work nine months plus all the "snow" days that are time off thus, if they have a summer job at DisneyWorld or the GAP and their salary they could earn 65K+ a year, retire at 55 and start career #2 with a huge nest egg. (my writing needs some taching help this morning)

[cbkaty]

move into smaller buildilngs.

Think steel buildings... The local school district here in Katy, TX spends approx $90 million on JR & SR High School buildings...which includes mosaics, murals, marble, imported tiles, etc...

Did I mention that they also build 3-story parking garages for all the kids that drive to school?