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The top 10 Hybrid myths (Autos alert)
Business Week ^ | 2/12/06 | B Berman

Posted on 02/13/2006 10:36:24 AM PST by voletti

With more of the gas-electric cars on the road, it's time to dispel some of the misinformation surrounding these alternative vehicles

Five years ago hybrid cars were an unknown commodity. Today vehicles powered by a combination of gasoline and electricity are all the rage. Like any new technology, until you get your hands on it -- in this case, on the steering wheel -- it's hard to get your mind around it.

If you are having a tough time separating hybrid truth from reality, you're not alone. The warp-speed adoption of hybrids into popular culture -- and into hundreds of thousands of American driveways -- has produced more than a little confusion and misinformation. Most industry analysts predict the continued growth of gas-electric vehicles, with estimates ranging from 600,000 to 1,000,000 hybrid sales in the U.S. by 2010, so this is a good time to debunk the 10 most prevalent myths about hybrid cars.

1. You need to plug in a hybrid car. As soon as the word "electricity" is spoken, you think of plugs, cords, and wall sockets. But today's hybrid cars don't need to be plugged in. Auto engineers have developed an ingenious system known as regenerative braking. (Actually, they borrowed the concept from locomotive technology.) Energy usually lost when a vehicle is slowing down or stopping is reclaimed and routed to the hybrid's rechargeable batteries. The process is automatic, so no special requirements are placed on the driver.

Car companies explain that drivers don't have to plug in their vehicles, but a growing number of them wish they had a plug-in hybrid. The ability to connect a hybrid into the electric grid overnight to charge a larger set of batteries means that most of your city driving could be done without burning a single drop of gasoline.

(Excerpt) Read more at businessweek.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: hybrids; myth
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To: oldbill
If they never need to be replaced, why is somebody shelling out $450 to buy one?

If someone was savvy with cars, they could buy one to re-fit a gas powered car to make their own hybrid.

101 posted on 02/13/2006 2:17:01 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Billthedrill

LOL!
Good ones there.


102 posted on 02/13/2006 2:18:34 PM PST by voletti (Awareness and Equanimity.)
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To: voletti
The 200,000 hybrid car sales in 2005 represent 1.2% of the 17 million new cars sold last year. If every new hybrid driver doubled fuel economy from 20 mpg to 40 mpg for 40 miles of daily driving -- an optimistic estimate -- then a gallon per hybrid car would be saved every day. That's a whopping 100,000 gallons per day chalked up to hybrid car drivers. But we've only reduced our daily U.S. consumption from 400 million gallons to 399,900,000 gallons.

So therefore, (by rigorous figgering of the gazintas), even if everyone had a hybrid, that still wouldn't solve the oil problems.

103 posted on 02/13/2006 2:23:20 PM PST by P.O.E.
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To: lepton
Ummm. Wouldn't that be because virtually none of the cars have been out there long enough?

Maybe not in the US, but they have been in use in Japan for many years. Toyota has a Hybrid mini van called the Estima that is slightly smaller than the Siena that's sold here, so I'm hoping they'll do a Hybrid Siena here in the US in the next few years. I guess if they think there's a market for it, they will.

104 posted on 02/13/2006 2:24:50 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: Iris7
Toyota will not allow anyone else to make these batteries or even buy them. Other car manufacturers are out of luck.

Toyota may have rights to that specific technology, but that doesn't preclude engineers from continuing to create better batteries.

105 posted on 02/13/2006 2:27:45 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: voletti
I liked the myth that only liberals buy hybrids. Now its true liberals buy one for the coolness and environmental concern. Why would a conservative buy a hybrid? To reduce our dependence on imported oil from foreign dictators and to have a dependable vehicle with lower maintenance costs. So I think the market will grow for them and contra Rush Limbaugh, it doesn't have to be an either/or option. You can have both a great powered car and fuel economy. The point is you no longer have to choose and hybrids will come in all sizes - not just the Liberal Boy and Liberal Girl Yugo joke.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

106 posted on 02/13/2006 2:29:50 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: P.O.E.
No, it wouldn't. But I think people like the savings in their wallets and as gas gets more and more expensive, people will make the switch.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

107 posted on 02/13/2006 2:31:33 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: RichardW

I have had the Prius for a little over a year. I put a lot of miles on a car. This one has over 40K on it since November 05. I am averaging 48.9 mpg over the life of the car. My only issue is people mistaking me for a lib, which some do. I correct them promptly. I paid about 25K for mine, which was more than if it were not a hybrid, but then, there are substantial savings with this car. Gas costs are less of course, but the regenerative braking saves on brake pads also. Maintenance costs are the same as previous cars. I have only had oil, filter and fluid changes every 5K miles.

The tax break is a DEDUCTION, not a credit. And I, too, have not heard of any warranty claims on the battery.

My favorite feature of the car, though, is the smart key system, which allows me to unlock the doors and start the car without having to take the key out of my pocket.

All in all, a good choice.


108 posted on 02/13/2006 2:48:46 PM PST by NCLaw441
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To: domenad
(85% or better typical efficiency, vs greater heat and entropy losses in internal combustion)

That is correct, however, you have the same losses at the power plant that is powered by hydrocarbons. Electric cars are good if the source of power for the turbines that generate the electricity is nuclear or renewable source. Otherwise to get a unit of electricity to the motor powering the car will require more hydrocarbon fuel than that in a gasoline powered car. Question? What is the conversion efficiency in a modern power plant as to turning 1 unit of energy into 1 unit of electricity. What is the power loss in the transmission lines. What is loss in charging the battery? What is the loss when we turn the stored chemical energy of the battery into electrical power for the motor. The motor itself I think you stated is 85% efficient.

109 posted on 02/13/2006 2:53:58 PM PST by cpdiii (roughneck (oil field trash and proud of it), geologist, pilot, pharmacist, full time iconoclast)
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To: lepton

I think Prius has had cars out since around 2000, although the new generation was started in 2004.


110 posted on 02/13/2006 3:02:10 PM PST by NCLaw441
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To: webstersII

You said: When you run the air conditioner the battery pack doesn't charge, so that blows alot of the fuel improvement in the summer.
***

That is not correct. The a/c is not belt-driven as in gas only vehicles. It runs from a separate electric motor. Use of the a/c requires the gas engine to come on more frequently to recharge the battery, but the battery still is charged when coasting and braking, as always.


111 posted on 02/13/2006 3:06:30 PM PST by NCLaw441
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To: American Quilter; domenad; Eagles Talon IV; SteveMcKing; voletti
"Should have been 11 myths. They left out the myth that Hybrids' actually get 50-60 miles per gallon as it says on the sticker."

"This was very interesting--thanks for providing it. I plan to replace my current car in about five years, and will be willing to consider a hybrid. Performance, reliability, and cost are the important factors to me, though I'd also love it if we could tell the world "No thanks, we don't need your oil any more." I realize we're nowhere near that point now."

Don't waste your money yet.

Eagles Talon is right. Not only is the mileage overrated, the Toyota Prius gets worse mileage than my Nissan Sentra did back in 1982. Yes, in 1982 my first new car got 41 mpg in the city and 49-50 mpg on the highway, with a peppy 1.6 liter engine.

I don't know if it's the engineering, or another factor, but paying an extra $5,000 for something that does no better than 1982 non-hybrid engines is a waste of money.

If you want to get "free" of imported oil, and not sacrifice performance, purchase a natural gas-powered car. The world is not short of CH4 and the changes to traditional internal combustion engines are virtually nil.

These trends in vehicles are compelling but that's what they are -- just trends. [Remember the words of George Santayana -- those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it.] Back in the early 1980s, diesel engines were all the rage . The fuel was much cheaper, and the mileage seemed to be better. [The VW Rabbit got over 50 mpg with diesel fuel.] Everyone started wanting diesel engines. Even Chrysler, for gosh sakes, started developing diesel luxury cars.

Well, that fad ended. Who builds luxury Lincolns or Chryslers with diesel engines anymore? And most of the diesels were dogs, too -- I remember Chrysler having to recall most of their models multiple times.

So, AG, don't fall for the hype. Do your homework. Let others -- the crunchy granola types from Seattle or San Francisco -- be the gineau pigs buying the hybrids.

112 posted on 02/13/2006 3:46:48 PM PST by tom h
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To: NCLaw441

Do you know how the heating works (an electic element)?


113 posted on 02/13/2006 3:50:40 PM PST by evilC ([573]Tag Server Error, Tag not found)
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To: evilC

The heat works like traditional cars, from the heated coolant, so in winter the car has to warm up some....BUT, the car has a thermos like container that stores some coolant when you turn the car off, so that the next time you start it, it will be warmed up already, or at least partly so. There are lots of cool things about the car other than it being a hybrid. Continuous variable transmission, for example, which means no changing gears, amazing how it works... no low gear, just drive.....


114 posted on 02/13/2006 3:59:22 PM PST by NCLaw441
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To: pageonetoo

You might want to run those figures through the calculator one more time. A fuel cost of $4,200 per year is more like it.

115 posted on 02/13/2006 4:24:10 PM PST by Boot Hill ("...and Joshua went unto him and said: art thou for us, or for our adversaries?")
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To: goldstategop

There are plenty of ways to incent consumer behavior. But it begs the question as to the underlying rationale. If it's the purported reduction in oil dependence, then it ain't it.


116 posted on 02/13/2006 5:06:44 PM PST by P.O.E.
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To: Jeff Chandler
"...the latest technology: wind-powered cars."

We-e-e-l-l...

http://www.theaircar.com/
117 posted on 02/13/2006 5:10:58 PM PST by decal (Too many people mistake "tolerance" for "approval")
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To: NCLaw441

Honda or Toyota, can't remember which, said that it was best not to run the A/C because it would seriously affect the fuel economy.

Have you found that to be true?


118 posted on 02/13/2006 5:43:20 PM PST by webstersII
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To: voletti
I'm holding out for solar-powered cars!

Maybe then I can get some frickin' sleep without the drag racing every Saturday night.

119 posted on 02/13/2006 5:48:02 PM PST by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a liberal when I married her.)
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To: webstersII

Running the A/C does affect the mileage, but not THAT seriously. I live in NC, and mid 90s are common in summer. The forums I read in say that putting the windows down affects mileage even more. I average 48.9 over the life of the car, since November 2005. Interestingly, my highway mileage is often around 53 to 56 mpg, although the car is supposed to be better in city driving. Short trips are the worst on the mileage. My last car, a VW Passat, got 24 mpg, so, even running the A/C, I do much better.


120 posted on 02/13/2006 5:48:39 PM PST by NCLaw441
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