Posted on 02/02/2006 6:14:17 AM PST by television is just wrong
Walmart employees recently chased down and killed a man in their parking lot claiming that he had stolen something from the store. Sooner or later we'll find out if there are any repercussions. Maybe criminal charges, certainly civil action.
I'm not an Attorney, however I think ownership starts after you leave the store, for anything you didn't bring with you upon entering.
That is the reason shoplifters are stopped "after" they walk out the door.
WalMart cannot go to your house and search, if you are in WalMart's house they can search.
Read post #77 on walmarts 'right' to search unreasonably.
Oath or not, you are bound to protect & defend our Constitution as the Law of the Land.
As soon as the Anti-WalMart search Amendment passes, I'll defend it.
Cute.
My, how proud it must make you to claim our constitutional principles do not apply to merchants. -- Since when are merchants exempt from our rule of law?
Go to a movie theater and yell fire, see how your 1st Amendment rights apply. Or an airport and yell bomb.
Both examples are criminal acts when there are no bombs or fires. Get real.
Your posts here are typical, for instance, of those who deny that the 2nd does not apply to merchants, -- that they can ban guns from employees & customers cars. Ring a bell?
Bring cases on both to the Supreme Court and see which survives.
I'd welcome such cases and the clearing of the 'constitutional air' they would raise. -- Your anti-constitutional 'pro-merchant' position would be left with no legs to stand on.
"Show me a law that says they are allowed to search me."
Look up "shopkeeper's privilege."
"They can of course declare me PNG."
From what you subsequently wrote, I'm sure you have.
"When approached by someone in Loss Prevention my first response is always curt "Request Denied" and I keep walking. Most of them are clueless enough to not know what to do next."
And the ones who do know what to do next have detained you and sent an information copy of their report to the police, and then PNG'd you out of their establishment. You probably have an extensive file with the local police department. You can reasonably expect that any police stop or police call involving you will not go well for you to begin with.
Here's the deal: Your state probably (you need to check) has what is commonly called a "shopkeeper's privilege" (you should google the term if you're curious) statute, which allows employees of an establishment to ascertain if you are leaving their store without paying for their merchandise, and even allows them to detain you for a reasonable amount of time if they have a reasonable belief that you have not.
51 posted on 02/02/2006 9:24:32 AM CST by 1rudeboy
As long as someone is inside the store, it may be difficult to prove theft or intent of theft. However, once a customer leaves a store in possession of store merchandize he didn't pay for, the issue of intent becomes more provable.
Yes. If you think their search is unreasonable, take action. I'm sure in some % of cases they are. In most I suspect they are reasonable.
I'd welcome such cases and the clearing of the 'constitutional air' they would raise.
Me too.
-- Your anti-constitutional 'pro-merchant' position would be left with no legs to stand on.
Anti-Constitutional? Please. Do they post a sign saying bags can be searched? Can you read the sign? If you disagree, shop elsewhere. Or call the police and your lawyer when they stop you at the door. Please let us know how it all plays out.
They will then either let you go or call the cops.
If they call the cops and you're clean, lawsuit city.
I think that was my point also.
Does that mean I can stand in the middle of WalMart all day and shout "Submit Unto God and Be Saved" at everyone while they shop, because I have freedom of speech?
Yes. If you think their search is unreasonable, take action. I'm sure in some % of cases they are. In most I suspect they are reasonable.
Thank you for conceding that 'unreasonable searches' by merchants are actionable under our Constitution.
Your posts here are typical, for instance, of those who deny that the 2nd does not apply to merchants, -- that they can ban guns from employees & customers cars.
I'd welcome such cases and the clearing of the 'constitutional air' they would raise.
Me too.
-- Your anti-constitutional 'pro-merchant' position would be left with no legs to stand on.
Anti-Constitutional? Please.
You want merchants to have an unrestricted power to search? -- That's anti-constitutional.
Do they post a sign saying bags can be searched? Can you read the sign? If you disagree, shop elsewhere.
And if the merchant disagrees with limits, let him open shop elsewhere. Mexico & China beckon.
Or call the police and your lawyer when they stop you at the door. Please let us know how it all plays out.
Rest assured, you will be the first to know.
Ask some of the pro-merchant crowd here.. They seem to be the experts on shouting nonsense.
Never said that unreasonable searches weren't actionable. Asking, "Can I look in your bag?" doesn't sound unreasonable. Asking to perform a body cavity search would be. Of course they might find your head.
Your posts here are typical, for instance, of those who deny that the 2nd does not apply to merchants, -- that they can ban guns from employees & customers cars.
Does the store allow you to scream your religious beliefs in the store? If not, does that violate your 1st Amendment rights? Why can't you carry a firearm on an airplane? Does that violate your 2nd Amendment rights?
Go to a movie theater and yell fire, see how your 1st Amendment rights apply. Or an airport and yell bomb.
Both examples are criminal acts when there are no bombs or fires.
You're kidding, right? You mean free speech can be a crime? That violates my 1st Amendment rights.
Rest assured, you will be the first to know.
Constitutional scholars worldwide breathlessly await your Supreme Court date.
Why can't you carry a firearm on an airplane? Does that violate your 2nd Amendment rights?
Yes, it does. But feel free to tell us why it doesn't, and why you and the brady bunch are so afraid of guns.
Go to a movie theater and yell fire, see how your 1st Amendment rights apply. Or an airport and yell bomb.
Both examples are criminal acts when there are no bombs or fires.
You're kidding, right? You mean free speech can be a crime? That violates my 1st Amendment rights.
Whatever. -- Please, dig yourself deeper on the 2nd..
How can a law or rule limit your Constitutional rights?
Both examples are criminal acts when there are no bombs or fires.
Explain how free speech (1st Amendment) can be a criminal act.
OK
Why can't you carry a firearm on an airplane? Does that violate your 2nd Amendment rights?
Yes, it does. But feel free to tell us why it doesn't, and why you and the brady bunch are so afraid of guns.
Go to a movie theater and yell fire, see how your 1st Amendment rights apply. Or an airport and yell bomb.
Both examples are criminal acts when there are no bombs or fires.
You're kidding, right? You mean free speech can be a crime? That violates my 1st Amendment rights.
Whatever. -- Please, dig yourself deeper on the 2nd..
How can a law or rule limit your Constitutional rights?
By saying you can't carry a firearm on an airplane. That violates your 2nd Amendment rights.
Explain how free speech (1st Amendment) can be a criminal act
Go to a movie theater and yell fire, when there is no fire, -- and you will be liable for any injuries in the ensuing panic.
Now, please, -- go bother someone else with your grade school type questions.
Searching your bag as you walk out of WalMart violates your 4th Amendment rights, that's why you can never be searched as you leave a store. /tpaine confused logic
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