Posted on 02/02/2006 6:14:17 AM PST by television is just wrong
Went into Kmart yesterday. Purchased my item. Walked to the door and a clerk wanted to go through my bag. Her position is called 'loss prevention'
Is This Illegal Search and seizure??? When I have purchased something, it is paid for put in a bag, is it not considered then my personal property? Then why am I subject to having that purchase inspected upon leaving the store???
this practice is expanding. It started at Costco, many years ago, and now it is at many discount stores. Is this actually illegal search and seizure? Do I have a right to refuse to let them look at what are now my belongings???
I have no idea what you just said.
I feel empowered by it. I feel like I am assisting them in finding the shoplifters -- the ones who won't stop and offer their bag.
Why do you think it's a problem? Aren't you helping them in preventing shoplifting? Just the presence of the bag check acts as a huge deterrent.
How do you square that with the searches that occur at airports and sporting events? There's no "public safety" exception in the 4th Amendment.
No, at that point you are not "free to go." You have to return the gas first. If you leave with it, you are committing theft.
You would have to return the gas first.
Cops are not lawyers and are not a valid source for interpretation of laws. If they were, then no one would ever be found not guilty.
That reaction may happen more often than I am told about:)
Ok, in post #59 you wrote: "You do, however, have the right to shop elsewhere"
Why do you think there is a right to shop elsewhere?
"I feel empowered by it. I feel like I am assisting them in finding the shoplifters -- the ones who won't stop and offer their bag."
I have the feeling you are just dying to share something with us, skip the search question and just open up.
"The presence of the sign makes it a contract that you were in violation of."
Please (I'm not being sarcastic)address the part about "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private."
How can the presence of a sign in contradiction to that not invalidate any presumed contract to begin with?
"I think there might also be the right of the shopkeeper to be secure in his effects against seizure from a thief."
I meant to respond earlier that that's a good point.
Because the government cannot force you to shop at all, much less at any particular store.
"Because the government cannot force you to shop at all, much less at any particular store."
???
Now I don't have any idea what you said.
Sure thing. Right here from the U.S Treasury itself:
QUESTION: I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?Quoting Snopes: "That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. U.S. currency and coins can be used for making payments, but a debtor does not have to pay in legal tender, nor does a creditor have to accept legal tender. If a shoemaker wants to sell his products for 8000 jelly beans per pair, he's entitled to do so; the buyer cannot demand that he accept the equivalent value in legal tender instead."ANSWER: The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," which states: "United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues."
This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.
The sign is not in contradiction to the promise that the Federal Reserve System will honor your Federal Reserve Note as legal tender. See my response quoting the appropriate statute above.
They can demand that you return their gasoline. If you don't it's theft.
" unless there is a State law which says otherwise"
You want to move the goalposts. This was about whether or not the phase "this note is legal tender for all debts public and private" meant that the gas station attendent MUST accept your fifty or the gas is free. The presence or absence of a state law won't change the fact that that phrase mandates only the Federal Reserve to accept it. But, I'll play anyway. Is there such a law in your state? Can you quote the statute please?
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