Posted on 02/02/2006 6:14:17 AM PST by television is just wrong
Went into Kmart yesterday. Purchased my item. Walked to the door and a clerk wanted to go through my bag. Her position is called 'loss prevention'
Is This Illegal Search and seizure??? When I have purchased something, it is paid for put in a bag, is it not considered then my personal property? Then why am I subject to having that purchase inspected upon leaving the store???
this practice is expanding. It started at Costco, many years ago, and now it is at many discount stores. Is this actually illegal search and seizure? Do I have a right to refuse to let them look at what are now my belongings???
Sure, I've violated their rights, but they are on my property and they are willing.
Your analogy doesn't wash. They are perfectly within their rights to search bags of people who leave their premises. College libraries used to do this before they had those electronic gizmos, to keep people from exiting with library books.
As I said in my original post response, you have the right to shop someplace else. If you frequent their premises, you've gotta follow their rules.
You can also just walk past the person and ignore them. It would be interesting to see what they do.
"It amazes me how many people don't understand that the Constitution sets forth the limits of what the *government* can and can't do - not the limits on private citizens."
And what sets the limits on private citizens?
Do you think that just because the Constituion "says nothing of private citizens or corporate entities" that they may violate rights at their will?
"We are endowed with certain unalienable rights by our Creator" to include life and liberty, and according to the Fifth Amendment we are not to be deprived by the government "...of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...". But just because the Fifth Amendment "says nothing of private citizens or corporate entities" doesn't mean that they are free to so deprive us.
Again, what sets the limits on private citizens? Let's go back to the Declaration of Independance:
"That to secure these rights Governments are instituted among men."
And since "The government derives its power from the governed (us)" we ourselves acting through the Government as limited by the Constitution set those limits (at least if it all works like it's supposed to, but that's a different problem).
And one of the limits I (as one of the governed from whom the Government derives its power) want set on private citizens (including myself) is to protect “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures…”
"Rules that I find strange are gas stations that say ...no bills larger than a $20."
I have trouble with that one too considering "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private."
Maybe when the kids leave home, I get older, retire, the dog dies and I have nothing better to do I'll make an issue of it someplace.
Can you call the police and complain that they wouldn't take your money? I don't know that you'd just be free to go in this state.
If you don't go into the store you don't need to worry about searches, reasonable or unreasonable.
"They are perfectly within their rights to search bags of people who leave their premises."
The following part of the Fourth Amendment needs to be emphasized:
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures…”
It’s important that this is a Constitutional protection from Government but for this discussion that importance is secondary to the importance that it is also an authoritative and clear statement that the right exists.
Where is it stated with equal authority (and clarity) that "They" have a right to search bags of people who leave their premises."
Checking bags on exit is common procedure and stores have the right to do it. Almost all post their rules though many don't search. When shopping stores with things of high value and small size it would be foolhardy and disastrous to the bottom line not too. Some stores offer the alternative to check your bags upon entrance but that is when the exit is right next to the case registers.
Did you misdirect your post?
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Who's cart?
How much did you pay for your cart?
Isn't it a hassle to take your own cart into the store every time? I usually just use one of the carts that the store was kind enough to loan to me. Of course, since I don't own that cart, and the store does, I take care not to damage or destroy somebody else's property.
But if I'm in their store building, then I believe I'm fair game for them to search my purchases. Searching me personally is where that stops, though. I mean hey, if they get to make up their own rules, so do I.
RFID will make that a thing of the past...
Wow, you make a valid point. the cart of course was not mine. I do not take my own cart everywhere. That is a silly comment. It was the cart I took posession of the put my purchased items in. I'm just trying to get input. I was insulted at Kmart. They took the bag I purchased and the receipt out of my hand, the woman barely spoke English, and put somekind of little mark on the receipt and handed it back to me. I might be over reacting, but it bothered me.
Costco, has done this since they opened. The difference being, (at least from my standpoint) at Kmart it is placed in a bag, infers that it is now mine. and at Costco, it is put in a cart for an item count at the door, no bags, but you can have boxes if you prefer, which I don't because I have to dispose of the cardboard after that.
I feel it is an infringement on my rights. I posted for others input. I sure am getting it. LOL.
Real Cynic No More #133: by exercising your rights to shop someplace else
There’s a right to shop someplace-elsewhere?
A lot of posts on this thread (including yours?) seem to support the position that we can be declared PNG for refusing a search, for any other reason or for no reason and face trespassing charges if we don’t leave when told to or if we come back when told not to.
That position doesn’t seem to allow for a right to shop someplace-elsewhere or anywhere at all. That position indicates we have no right but are only at liberty to shop someplace-elsewhere or (anywhere) if allowed to.
Thanks, it's your kind that makes it so much easier for me to shoplift. I usually go and purchase a small inexpensive item at the counter back in sporting goods so I can get a bag and receipt and then go over to electronics and grab an iPod or something expensive and put it in the same bag then skip the check out lanes. If it weren't for your type they would know that I was shoplifting when I give them lip and walk past. Thanks again for the cover, dude.
/sarcasm
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