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Danger Zone - (Haleigh Poutre)
National Review ^ | February 01, 2006 | Wesley J, Smith

Posted on 02/01/2006 7:29:10 AM PST by Ohioan from Florida

In the court (and courts) of life and death, a little 11-year-old Massachusetts girl named Haleigh Poutre could be the next Terri Schiavo. For those who have not heard the tragic story, Haleigh was beaten nearly to death last September, allegedly by her adoptive mother and stepfather. The beating left her unconscious and barely clinging to life.

Within a week or so of the beating, her doctors had written her off. They apparently told Haleigh's court-appointed guardian, Harry Spence, that she was "virtually brain dead." Even though he had never visited her, Spence quickly went to court seeking permission to remove her respirator and feeding tube. The court agreed, a decision affirmed recently by the supreme court of Massachusetts.

And so, no doubt with the best of intentions, a little girl who had already suffered so much was stripped by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts of even the chance to fight to stay alive. If she didn't stop breathing when the respirator was removed, which doctors expected, she would slowly dehydrate to death.

Close Call

Then came the unexpected:

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: childabuse; dehydratnfla; dontfeedtrolls; euthanasia; flstarvestate; gallagher4guv; haileypoutre; haleighpoutre; justicevseuthanasia; massachusetts; starvnfla; stopflmurders; tedstith; terridailies; terridailiesfeb; terrischiavo; terrischindler; wesleyjsmith
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To: 8mmMauser
>> I started to read it, but instead decided to have breakfast.

:-)

It wasn't interesting anyway. It was sophomoric, contrasting Bush's acceptance of "collateral damage" war casualties with his opposition to killing embryos for stem cell research.

1,041 posted on 02/16/2006 5:28:52 AM PST by T'wit (Liberals called our Vietnam troops baby killers. They've since sponsored 45 million abortions.)
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To: T'wit

The M.E. was from Texas. I don't have his start date in Pinellas County. Does Texas ring any bells?


1,042 posted on 02/16/2006 7:15:00 AM PST by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: T'wit

paper, plastic or death today, sir?


1,043 posted on 02/16/2006 7:16:44 AM PST by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: 8mmMauser
speaking of Greer's friend from a pioneer family moving to California. Crist's getting a "sweet" deal in donations from California car dealers for his campaign.

I'll vote for the democrat before I'll vote for Crist. Crist is capable of ruining the state of Florida all by himself. He's the special interest candidate for governor.

No man of the people would need donations from California and New York.

1,044 posted on 02/16/2006 7:23:27 AM PST by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: amdgmary; BykrBayb; floriduh voter; T'wit
Your reference to the death meet in post #863 and our posting of Pamela Hennessey's article on that gathering of creeps and the ProLifeBlogs now all have dead links as well as meetings on death. Seems all the links and website announcements of that strange symposium went south.

Maybe daylight causes them to shrink back into the darkness. Any ideas on what happened to the conference if not the website links? Surely they did not cancel their coven.

Schiavo, Cranford and Greer to Speak at Ethics Conference

8mm

1,045 posted on 02/16/2006 8:19:21 AM PST by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: floriduh voter
> Does Texas ring any bells?

Why, yes, I've heard of it several times! :-)

As for a Thogmartin connection, no. Don't see that we need one. The autopsy was far more damaging to MS than his little army guessed. They couldn't wait to trumpet that Terri's whole brain was gone and that that proved Michael did the right thing.

But the autopsy didn't show any such thing. It showed severe brain damage (which everybody knew) -- i.e., not complete destruction; and that damage was oddly localized to the frontal areas. Some of the networking in the back areas was intact. This was new information and helped account for her ability to function despite the heavy cortical damage. (It is well known that injured brains can rewire or reroute functions in order to restore function.) The findings thus suggested the probable cause of her injury to be loss of carotid arterial blood (which supplies blood to the damaged area of the brain). That reanimates the theory that she was strangled by some means that cut carotid artery flow.

Dr. Thogmartin also shot down the old bulimia nonsense (a preposterous theory to begin with, but it was all they had). He all but ridiculed it -- in proper scientific language, of course.

Maybe you noticed, the trumpeting from Michael's camp followers died out pretty quickly.

They cite snippets from it, such as the M.E.'s view that Terri couldn't swallow safely. That's an inference from records, not an autopsy finding. A perfectly sensible view in textbook terms, too; but not indisputable. Terri did, after all, swallow successfully all the years, and was fed at times. Dr. Hammesfahr was just as sure that she could have been taught to eat and drink by mouth again, and he had the advantage of live observation. Call it a standoff; the matter cannot be proved either way.

Another one they cite is his claim that Terri suffered cortical blindness. IOW, her vision center in the brain was so far gone, she couldn't have had any vision. But she did -- before she was dehydrated. Dr. Hammesfahr, again with first-hand experience, published that she was partially blind but he measured some vision. This discrepancy was probably explained by additional brain damage when Terri was dehydrated.

Incidentally, Dr. Thogmartin made a point of remarking the cortical blindness. He did NOT state that Terri had lost all of her other senses (as certain trolls falsely state based on their own imagined understanding of neurology). Surely he would have, if he thought it to be true. But in fact, he was well aware that she had other senses -- could listen to music, could feel pain (as abundantly recorded in her med files), and so on.

In a word, neither the autopsy report nor its author are anything to worry about, imo.

1,046 posted on 02/16/2006 8:23:33 AM PST by T'wit (Liberals called our Vietnam troops baby killers. They've since sponsored 45 million abortions.)
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To: 8mmMauser
I have to leave now. Somebody ought to bring the coven plans to the attention of Nat Hentoff at Village Voice. He is a fair-minded man who would immediately grasp the implications of the following all on the same platform: 1) the judge; 2) a party to litigation in whose favor the judge consistently ruled; 3) an unabashedly partisan doctor hired by aforementioned litigant, all of whose findings the judge accepted; and finally a guardian ad litem who echoed the judge on every point instead of meeting his legal obligation to represent his ward.

How the heck can justice be dispensed disinterestedly when the judge, litigant, "expert" witness and g.a.l. are buddies running a traveling carnival?

1,047 posted on 02/16/2006 8:54:41 AM PST by T'wit (Liberals called our Vietnam troops baby killers. They've since sponsored 45 million abortions.)
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To: pickyourpoison
Tom Gallagher for Fla Governor

www.tg2006.com

Sign up for TG will be coming to Pinellas County again in the near future, right into the belly of the beast. (sarcasm tag required these days for the lurkers).

1,048 posted on 02/16/2006 11:46:19 AM PST by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: 8mmMauser; amdgmary; Lesforlife; russesjunjee; Dante3; Salvation; T'wit; wildandcrazyrussian; ...
"A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight."

Proverbs 11:1

1,049 posted on 02/16/2006 12:00:26 PM PST by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: BykrBayb; Sun; tutstar
One Term Senator Mel Martinez caption this:

My entry: "You don't say, Mel."

1,050 posted on 02/16/2006 12:04:49 PM PST by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: 8mmMauser; All
Hello, everyone. I apologize for neglecting our discussion. I've had a rough couple of days. Unfortunately, I seem to be in the early stages of relapse--maybe that's why my interest in this subject has resurged--and probably won't be able to post much. I did just want to say to you, 8mm, that it sounds like you gave your son a great deal of tender care; I can't tell you how much I respect that.

Also, someone asked about the rest of the 4 hours of video. I have not seen it myself, but have read summary descriptions by the judge, a reporter who viewed them, and someone from the area, whom I respect and trust, who has seen them. (Perhaps you are unaware that the complete videos are accessible at the courthouse down there.) All three accounts agree that Mrs. Schiavo appeared to laugh, cry, grunt, squeal, vocalize, sweep her eyes back and forth more or less continually, randomly, and regardless of the presence or absence of any other person in the room. In other words, the "smile" she displayed in apparent response to Mrs. Schindler was also displayed at random times while she was alone and when other people were with her. She was not responding to her mother; her mother's presence just happened to coincide with some of her random changes in affect.

At least that's the way I understand it. I will return and try to hold up my end of the discussion when I can. I will probably be reading more that writing, however. Thanks to all for your thoughts.
1,051 posted on 02/16/2006 12:08:45 PM PST by quentin
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To: quentin
reading more that writing = reading more than writing
1,052 posted on 02/16/2006 12:14:08 PM PST by quentin
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To: 8mmMauser
Everyone lurkers, media and freepers need to read the lead editorial link below re: JUDGE GREER. Judge Greed continues to violate judicial canons left and right but who's counting. He after all committed judicial homicide. There is no statute of limitations on murder and George Greer is a killer. FV's words

http://www.northcountrygazette.org/

1,053 posted on 02/16/2006 12:18:50 PM PST by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: quentin

It sounds like you were at the courthouse in downtown Clearwater. How'd you get in?


1,054 posted on 02/16/2006 12:23:16 PM PST by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org)
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To: quentin
"All three accounts agree that Mrs. Schiavo appeared to laugh, cry, grunt, squeal, vocalize, sweep her eyes back and forth more or less continually, randomly, and regardless of the presence or absence of any other person in the room. In other words, the "smile" she displayed in apparent response to Mrs. Schindler was also displayed at random times while she was alone and when other people were with her. She was not responding to her mother; her mother's presence just happened to coincide with some of her random changes in affect."

I have cared for patients like Terri Schindler, and it is true they somtimes when they are are alone as if someone is in the room. This is because they go in and out of consiousness. But they also give DEFINITE, not random reponses to stimuli and to loved ones and such responses are NO coincidence.

Nurses working with Terri have said she responded to pain and other stimuli. And unfortunately Terri's physical condition deteriorated when rehabilitative therapy stopped.

Regardless, even were Terri in a coma (which she wasn't), it would be grossly immoral to end their lives prematurely. Such patients should receive the best of care, food and water and let nature take it's course. Studies have consistently shown, comatose patients are far more aware of their surroundings than they appear to be.

1,055 posted on 02/16/2006 12:23:41 PM PST by TAdams8591
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To: 8mmMauser
"To carry on the ability to eat, and other signs many would like to see as proof of human life, I can give you an example. As I have noted elsewhere, we could only dream our son of 26 years had the responsiveness of Terri. His eyes could not track as well, and he could not respond as well. He could lock eyes just for a heartbeat, and would burst into a smile and that was that.

Yet, we were able to feed him by mouth. It is very hard work and takes patience, not highly qualified medical opinion, to feed a person in that condition. He did not know how to chew, could swallow reflexively, a motor function common to even the severely retarded. But we took our time and did what the medical technicians said was impossible. So far as aspiration is concerned, we at times offered gelatin, Jello, to keep him hydrated. We did it for 26 years and he thrived, did not develop, but lived a happy life."

mm, may God bless you and your entire family for choosing to love and so thoroughly care for your son. Your devotion is admirable and quite heroic. Would that many people learn from your extraordinary sacrifice and great example and thank you so much for your personal testimony. : )

1,056 posted on 02/16/2006 1:44:10 PM PST by TAdams8591
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To: quentin

Quentin, I urge you to take the summary of the video with a grain of salt, knowing the bias favoring their interests. If you have had direct experience with someone like Terri you would realize again and again that while some reactions may be random, some are very real indeed.

The observations you heard are at diametric odds with those of a highly respected priest who visited her each day, described her smiles personally to us and reactions, just minutes after visiting with her. He told us of her courageous demeanor and attempts to react right up to near the end.

Who are you going to believe?


1,057 posted on 02/16/2006 2:52:11 PM PST by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: TAdams8591

Thank you for your kind words.


1,058 posted on 02/16/2006 3:06:27 PM PST by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: quentin
"I also keep remembering that the rest of the four hours of video provide the context that showed even more clearly that there was no cognition there."-- Quentin version 1.

"Also, someone asked about the rest of the 4 hours of video. I have not seen it myself, but have read summary descriptions by the judge, a reporter who viewed them, and someone from the area, whom I respect and trust, who has seen them."-- Quentin version 2

1,059 posted on 02/16/2006 3:40:35 PM PST by bjs1779
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To: quentin
Welcome back. Hope you're better now.

Post #963 was for you as much as for me. I could not -- and still do not -- credit your point in #908 that disability rights activists suffer "palpable fear" and "do not trust the people in their lives who are closest to them." Nor, being handicapped myself, do I look down on people with disabilities as "poor folks."

I went back and read every link posted at that site in regard to Terri Schiavo. Nobody even mentioned such fear or mistrust! What they were all concerned about, rather, was discrimination and social attitudes that seemed to them threatening. What they fear is the very real possibility that they will be cut off from medical care or even treated as "useless eaters" and forcibly "euthanized" for being disabled. As the euthanasia movement gathers force, these questions loom larger and larger.

It is revealing that they fear being treated like Terri Schiavo. They know she was treated cruelly!

Terri was, in fact, a supreme example of an individual being deprived of her rights and denied any say in her care. If we are to defend our own rights to decide our fate, we must defend hers.

1,060 posted on 02/16/2006 3:45:16 PM PST by T'wit (Liberals called our Vietnam troops baby killers. They've since sponsored 45 million abortions.)
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