Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
Posted on 02/01/2006 5:48:44 AM PST by cll
Nice bike, I have one of those myself.
I would consider you and your family to be the minority. Of all the Puerto Ricans I have met (out of several hundred)and or talked to you would be the second I've spoken with to not hold the states in utter contempt.
I say tell those that want to come to come and let the rest stay there and make a go of being independent.
I agree.
I'm not expert on the situation - but was able to read up on the situation in a class several years ago.
It's time to stop the screwing around by Congress.
The residents of Puerto Rico get three choices:
(a). Independence
(b). Statehood
(c). Territory Status
If they choose Territory Status, it's a binding decision for 50 years. That way, we can avoid having to hold a referendum (for example) every 10 or 15 years.
If they choose Independence...well, good bye and good luck.
If they choose Statehood...welcome aboard.
A final decision needs to be made one way or the other. Enough of the lolly-gagging around by Congress. Final disclaimer: I'm not of Puerto Rican descent nor do I have family or friends there. Nor do I have an economic interest there.
Give 'em independence.
????? They get 5% of the vote...
Well, Texas.
"PR has a legislature, doesn't it? Does it conduct business in English? What about the courts? Is English taught in the schools as the basic language or a second language"?
The Puerto Rico legislature has conducted business in English, but it normally does so in Spanish. There's no prohibition as to what language to use. Would you believe that the PR Senate President is named Kenneth McClintock?
"I don't advocate treating PR any differently than other states, but what I don't want is another Quebec situation in our country."
Quebec is nearly half of Canada, in territory and population. There's just no comparison.
"Do most Puerto Ricans speak English. I must admit that all that I know speak English (most from the military)."
I wouldn't go as far as saying that most Puerto Ricans speak English, but it is a mandatory and primary subject, along with Spanish, in all schools. Whether people use it or not is another matter. But, for instance, I have many continentals in my company that have lived here for years and have never had to learn Spanish. This is in the San Juan metropolitan area.
"Why don't PR people want statehood?"
Close to 50% of the electorate favor the pro-statehood party. The other bigger block of voters who support the status quote get nearly the other half. These people are the biggest obstacle. It is my opinion that they just want to keep the IRS out of their lives. I, of course, have no lost love for the IRS but this is not a matter of taxation. We are already taxed by the "federales" (social sec, medicare, unemployment). This is a matter of civil rights. Four million Americans live under an apartheid system, ruled at the whim of Congress.
I stand corrected.
Another thing to keep in mind: Seven Democratic or Five Democratic and Two RINO congressmen, and two Dem Senators.
I think that any place that wants US bennies ought to become a state first. why are we sending millions overseas to countries that hate us?
I'd turn that spigot off unless they become states. otherwise, to heck with them.
Clemenza, give me a break. You would choose independence over statehood if you were a resident of Puerto Rico? Given the fact that you haven't moved to Italy or Poland, nor have you campaigned for Long Island's independence from the U.S., it's risible for you to make that claim.
Puerto Ricans have been U.S. citizens since 1917 and have participated in every military conflict in which the U.S. has been involved since World War I. Saying that Puerto Rico should become independent would be like kicking Mississippi out of the Union because a large percentage of the population is below the poverty line.
As for "commonwealth status," trust me, it's not as good as you think. While residents of Puerto Rico do not pay federal taxes, the lack of voting representation in Congress means that residents of Puerto Rico get far less in transfer payments than residents of any state, and that the government of Puerto Rico gets far less federal funding than the government of any state. This results in state taxes being absurdly high. And putting aside economics, how would you like to be governed by a Congress and a President for which you do not have the right to vote? Maybe you think that not paying federal income taxes is a small price to pay for being a colony, but I certainly don't think so, and neither did the Founding Fathers---even had Parliament not taxed the colonists, it violated their principles not to have consent of the governed.
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
The only realistic solution is independence. If there exists on the island a significant minority of people opposed to any links with the United States, they will be a
constant and intense irritant to the political process. They best solution is to cut the island loose. Give it a generous financial settlement but let it go.
In San Juan many do, but probably less than 50% speak it well. Out on the island forget about it, unless it's a very touristy town such as Rincon. In a place like La Parguera, finding someone who speaks English well can be a struggle.
Question: Does Puerto Rico pay income taxes?
What about all those special status drug companies in PR?
Where will the politcal money from their PAC's go?
Few mainland Americans think very much about Puerto Rico. That gap in their attentions may end only when they wake up to discover that the flag has 51 stars. Because of legislation now quietly wending its way through Congress with the support of the Republican leadership, decisions made on the island in the next year or so could have profound consequences for the future of Puerto Rico as well as for the United States as a whole. The House of Representatives may vote as early as this week on a bill to set up a plebiscite on the island's political status. Passage of this act by both houses, plus the President's signature, would oblige the U.S. government to honor whichever of three options Puerto Rico's voters choose: maintaining the island's present commonwealth status, independence or entry into the Union as the 51st state. WHERE'S THE DEBATE? The legislation has gotten this far without even the pretense of a national debate about whether it is in America's interest to attempt to digest, as a state, a territory whose inhabitants are predominantly Spanish-speaking, far poorer on average than mainland Americans, and more heavily dependent on federal welfare and transfer payments than the residents of the poorest current states. Moreover, the island has a deeply rooted national independence movement -- though recent polls show that to be at a relative ebb. Puerto Rico's political status has been an issue since the island was ceded by Spain after the U.S. victory in the Spanish-American War of 1898. Puerto Ricans were made U.S. citizens in 1917, but residents there have no right to vote in presidential elections or to send representatives to Congress. Puerto Rican Gov. Pedro J. Rossello sees next year's centennial of Puerto Rico under the U.S. flag as the appropriate occasion for changing the island's legal status. Like his New Progressive Party, he wants Puerto Ricans to choose statehood to replace commonwealth status. The statehood forces are gaining ground -- unfortunately, for all the wrong reasons. When Puerto Ricans last voted on the issue, in 1993, the commonwealth forces prevailed over statehood by a very narrow 2 percent. But statehood advocates have been pounding across the message that their way means greatly expanded eligibility for federal benefits. FEDERAL CORNUCOPIA "If it were a state," writes former Gov. Carlos Romero-Barcelo in his frankly titled book, "Statehood Is for the Poor," "Puerto Rico would be absolutely assured of enormous amounts of federal money -- money the island needs in order to come to grips with its many problems. But without statehood, such large quantities of money are going to be increasingly hard to come by." Indeed, while Puerto Ricans now pay no federal income taxes, half the island's 3.7 million inhabitants receive Food Stamps -- a rate considerably higher than that of Mississippi, the poorest mainland state. Puerto Rico has long had a high rate of out-of-wedlock births -- a problem which seems to worsen as Puerto Ricans move closer to the American mainstream. An astounding 59.4 percent of Puerto Rican children born on the U.S. mainland are born to unwed mothers, a rate twice the (dismayingly high) national average and much greater than any other Hispanic group in the U.S. Unemployment on the island is over 13 percent, more than twice the national figure. PRIDE IN LANGUAGE Then there is language -- a symbol of culture and probably the most volatile issue of all. According to the Census Bureau, only 25 percent of the island's population is fluent in English, and that percentage hasn't risen in years. Some Republicans hope to expand the use of English on the island, but history suggests this will be difficult. Indeed, Puerto Ricans have a history of pride in their language and of tough resistance to measures extending the use of English in their schools. Passage of the plebiscite bill in Congress could very well launch Puerto Rico on an inexorable march toward becoming the 51st state. Why, then, is there so little caution, so little reflection by the Washington political establishment on the potential pitfalls of such union? The independence movement -- while now able to garner only about 5 percent in the opinion polls -- has always had a substantial backing among Puerto Rico's intellectual and artistic elite. The pro-independence forces have resorted to violence on several occasions, and Puerto Ricans continue to revere as nationalist heroes several martyr-figures whom most Americans would view simply as terrorists. The friction over language and culture that Puerto Rican statehood would surely generate might well inflame the independentista spirit -- with unforseeable consequences. Perhaps Puerto Ricans might benefit -- materially at least -- from the increased access to federal transfer payments that statehood would bring. But what would be the impact on the the U.S.? A relatively poor Caribbean island state, with a high illegitimacy rate, would almost certainly elect to Congress liberal Democrats, who would be committed to higher taxes and increased social spending. Such legislators could be expected to support the extension of bilingual education, and might well become a powerful institutional voice for making Spanish a quasi-official language of the U.S. GOP FECKLESSNESS There are, we know, an array of arguments both for and against statehood (and the other options) that haven't been addressed here; we have stressed the reasons for hesitation and caution. The mystery is why the Republican-controlled Congress is ready to take such a major and probably irrevocable step affecting the future of the U.S. with so little public debate and reflection. At week's end, Speaker Newt Gingrich's office had no thought to offer on the matter. We believe that the looming vote on Puerto Rico's status is yet another sign of how the congressional GOP has lost its way. The current leadership seems more interested in trying to placate the liberal Washington establishment -- or hatching schemes it imagines are popular with minority voters -- than in protecting the interests of the voters who elected it. This is a feckless way to guide America's destiny.
--- SM (NY Post 1997)
They might be Americans by definition, but since they themselves consider themselves not Americans, but Puerto Ricans, I say if they want independence, let em have it. If they want Statehood, that's fine too, but they will pay taxes like the rest of us.
Few mainland Americans think very much about Puerto Rico. That gap in their attentions may end only when they wake up to discover that the flag has 51 stars.
Because of legislation now quietly wending its way through Congress with the support of the Republican leadership, decisions made on the island in the next year or so could have profound consequences for the future of Puerto Rico as well as for the United States as a whole.
The House of Representatives may vote as early as this week on a bill to set up a plebiscite on the island's political status. Passage of this act by both houses, plus the President's signature, would oblige the U.S. government to honor whichever of three options Puerto Rico's voters choose: maintaining the island's present commonwealth status, independence or entry into the Union as the 51st state.
WHERE'S THE DEBATE?
The legislation has gotten this far without even the pretense of a national debate about whether it is in America's interest to attempt to digest, as a state, a territory whose inhabitants are predominantly Spanish-speaking, far poorer on average than mainland Americans, and more heavily dependent on federal welfare and transfer payments than the residents of the poorest current states. Moreover, the island has a deeply rooted national independence movement -- though recent polls show that to be at a relative ebb.
Puerto Rico's political status has been an issue since the island was ceded by Spain after the U.S. victory in the Spanish-American War of 1898. Puerto Ricans were made U.S. citizens in 1917, but residents there have no right to vote in presidential elections or to send representatives to Congress.
Puerto Rican Gov. Pedro J. Rossello sees next year's centennial of Puerto Rico under the U.S. flag as the appropriate occasion for changing the island's legal status. Like his New Progressive Party, he wants Puerto Ricans to choose statehood to replace commonwealth status.
The statehood forces are gaining ground -- unfortunately, for all the wrong reasons. When Puerto Ricans last voted on the issue, in 1993, the commonwealth forces prevailed over statehood by a very narrow 2 percent.
But statehood advocates have been pounding across the message that their way means greatly expanded eligibility for federal benefits.
FEDERAL CORNUCOPIA
"If it were a state," writes former Gov. Carlos Romero-Barcelo in his frankly titled book, "Statehood Is for the Poor," "Puerto Rico would be absolutely assured of enormous amounts of federal money -- money the island needs in order to come to grips with its many problems. But without statehood, such large quantities of money are going to be increasingly hard to come by."
Indeed, while Puerto Ricans now pay no federal income taxes, half the island's 3.7 million inhabitants receive Food Stamps -- a rate considerably higher than that of Mississippi, the poorest mainland state.
Puerto Rico has long had a high rate of out-of-wedlock births -- a problem which seems to worsen as Puerto Ricans move closer to the American mainstream. An astounding 59.4 percent of Puerto Rican children born on the U.S. mainland are born to unwed mothers, a rate twice the (dismayingly high) national average and much greater than any other Hispanic group in the U.S.
Unemployment on the island is over 13 percent, more than twice the national figure.
PRIDE IN LANGUAGE
Then there is language -- a symbol of culture and probably the most volatile issue of all. According to the Census Bureau, only 25 percent of the island's population is fluent in English, and that percentage hasn't risen in years. Some Republicans hope to expand the use of English on the island, but history suggests this will be difficult. Indeed, Puerto Ricans have a history of pride in their language and of tough resistance to measures extending the use of English in their schools.
Passage of the plebiscite bill in Congress could very well launch Puerto Rico on an inexorable march toward becoming the 51st state. Why, then, is there so little caution, so little reflection by the Washington political establishment on the potential pitfalls of such union?
The independence movement -- while now able to garner only about 5 percent in the opinion polls -- has always had a substantial backing among Puerto Rico's intellectual and artistic elite.
The pro-independence forces have resorted to violence on several occasions, and Puerto Ricans continue to revere as nationalist heroes several martyr-figures whom most Americans would view simply as terrorists. The friction over language and culture that Puerto Rican statehood would surely generate might well inflame the independentista spirit -- with unforseeable consequences.
Perhaps Puerto Ricans might benefit -- materially at least -- from the increased access to federal transfer payments that statehood would bring.
But what would be the impact on the the U.S.? A relatively poor Caribbean island state, with a high illegitimacy rate, would almost certainly elect to Congress liberal Democrats, who would be committed to higher taxes and increased social spending. Such legislators could be expected to support the extension of bilingual education, and might well become a powerful institutional voice for making Spanish a quasi-official language of the U.S.
GOP FECKLESSNESS
There are, we know, an array of arguments both for and against statehood (and the other options) that haven't been addressed here; we have stressed the reasons for hesitation and caution.
The mystery is why the Republican-controlled Congress is ready to take such a major and probably irrevocable step affecting the future of the U.S. with so little public debate and reflection. At week's end, Speaker Newt Gingrich's office had no thought to offer on the matter.
We believe that the looming vote on Puerto Rico's status is yet another sign of how the congressional GOP has lost its way. The current leadership seems more interested in trying to placate the liberal Washington establishment -- or hatching schemes it imagines are popular with minority voters -- than in protecting the interests of the voters who elected it. This is a feckless way to guide America's destiny.
--- SM (NY Post 1997)
I agree.
Yes. Locally. Income for Puerto Rico sources (IRC sec. 933 income) is currently expempt from federal income taxes. However, all income is subject to social security, medicare and unemployment taxes.
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