Posted on 01/03/2006 9:34:40 AM PST by Esther Ruth
Vatican Says Jerusalem "Issue" is Too Important to Leave to Israel, PA 19:15 Jan 03, '06 / 3 Tevet 5766
(IsraelNN.com) The legal counsel of the Vatican in Israel, the priest David Jaeger, said today that Jerusalem is too important of an "issue" to be left to Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Jaeger further expressed criticism of Israeli policy regarding holy sites in the country.
"The issue of Jerusalem," the representative of the Roman Catholic Church said, "is to important to leave in the hands of the Israelis and the Palestinians."
The Catholic Church has been making efforts to obtain historical sites in Jerusalem of late, but without public successes.
The "Vatican" can kiss my ass.
They are fools themselves. Pope John Paul II disgraced his office by not a single time decrying the worldwide, slow motion holocaust of Christians at the hands of Muslims. Instead the former Pope barfed up "Islam the great religion" vomit repeatedly.
rosary bead history
Study history more often before making comments about my intellectuality.
Do your homework.
Before I answer, let me pose YOU a question: Do you really think that wether you worship on Sunday or Saturday is a serious concern? I think that having a "day of rest" dedicated to the Lord is more important rather than the day. The tradition you trying to use as an example is a poor one to argue.
Consider yourself asked.
My my....that is certainly a "Christian" attitude....
funny
I was confirmed in the RC at 16, so my knowledge is from that church. I don't know thing one about the EO.
The Vatican changed the 10 commandments. They erased the 2nd (idolatry) and split up the 10th to make up the difference. They changed the 4th (Sabbath) to "Lord's Day". This is in the catechism.
The RC church governance is no where near what Paul dictates. Jesus was really critical of the Pharisee system of having a special class of priests, alas that is how the RC is run. Pastors, Deacons, and Elders are supposed to be normal people whose occupation/hobby is running a church. I can't find justification for such a top - down centralized management of the Church in scripture.
The RC breaks the 1st commandment by praying to dead people and even "deifying" them.
The RC breaks the 2nd by erecting more idols than any religion in history.
The RC breaks the 4th and the 1st by worshiping on Sunday.
The RC breaks the 7th because Jesus analogizes the Church as His Bride. By incorporating so many pagan customs (like Sunday keeping) the Church is cheating on the Lord.
The RC teaches that Peter founded the Church at Rome, but it was indeed started by Paul. The RC teaches that Peter was the first Pope, but Peter gets corrected by Paul and Jesus several times in the scriptures.
The RC interprets Jam 5:16 Confess faults to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. to mean confess your sins to me while I pay people off to keep my sins hidden.
The RC teaches that the soul is immortal, hell already exists, and people can go straight to heaven, hell, or limbo when they die. You can pray for people to help them out in the after life. Scriptures show only 3 people who have maded it to Heaven (Enoch, Elija, and Moses) and Jesus referred to death as Joh 11:11 He said these things; and after that He said to them, Our friend Lazarus sleeps. But I go so that I may awaken him out of sleep. Joh 11:12 Then His disciples said, Lord, if he sleeps, he will get well. Joh 11:13 But Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He had spoken of taking rest in sleep. Joh 11:14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
The RC prays to Mary and asks her to intercede for sinners when the scriptures say that our intercessor is Christ and Christ alone.
The RC teaches that the Bible is fallible and that the final word is the Pope, but Jesus said Mat 15:9 But in vain they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Yep! Genesis 2:3, [And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy]..... He never changed his mind and said, "Oh, lets do Sunday now."
Exodus 31:12, [Then the Lord said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths'. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come so that you will know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy".]
And in verse 16-17, [The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever.]
I will try to address your concerns one by one....
1. RC & EO DO NOT "WORSHIP" DEAD PEOPLE....
Do you ask your Christian Brothers & Sisters to pray for you? In our belief, You have two groups: The Church Militant, (those who are on this earth) and the Church Triumphant, (Those who are in heaven) They are not disconnected from us, even in Heaven. They worship with us in heaven, whenever the Divine Liturgy (or Mass, RC)is celebrated. We ask them to pray for us at the throne...That is all. No Difference.
2.The accusation of "idolatry" is a most foul heresy that was done away with in the 800's called iconoclasts!
The Holy Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon declared that one could depict the saints, Christ, his Holy Mother, etc. ans that they could be reverenced, BUT NOT WORSHIPPED.
Another example of Protestant overkill.
3. What makes you think the 7th day is SATURDAY? God doesn't go by our calendar. ( I can back that up scripturally if you like.) It doesn't say saturday anywhere!
4. Peter was the first bishop of Rome, but he was Bishop of Antioch first. I agree with you on that one to a point.
5. As for the Theotokos, or Holy Mother of God, I would be careful of what you say on that one. There is a basic premise here older than scripture. What son would deny anything that his mother asks? Mary sits at his side in Heaven. She is worthy of honor and praise due to the fact she gave human form to the Godhead.
Your other points about Limbo, etc. are correct. Except for those who are exceptional to be in Heaven, all go to a "place of repose" until the judgement. Not purgatory, not hell. Many of the other points are sticklers between RC's and Orthodox to this day. The all stem from Papal abuses, and schism. We weren't involved in that.
I highly suspect you are a 7th Day Adventist, and I am highly familar with YOUR church history, and it is more dubious than RC's will ever be!
I disagree...see my last post.....
Show me in Scripture where the Sabbath is on Saturday.
Fr. Jaeger can stuff it for all I care.
Good points. I'm always amazed that the Roman Church used this Apostle as their standard bearer. But..... with their mis-interpretation of Matthew 16:18 I guess I see the logic.
Luke 22:24, [Also a dispute arose among them as to which was considered to be the greatest.] This happens some time after Matthew 16:18.....I guess the others had not received the word yet about Peter's primacy.
John 21:15-19, Jesus tells Peter three times to feed his sheep. Who are these sheep? Matthew 10:5-6, Jesus tells his disciples "do not go among the Gentiles but go rather to the Lost Sheep of Israel". Does not sound like he is telling them to go to Rome, does it? In fact there is no passage in scripture that tells of Peter being in or about Rome. In the book of Acts he is primarily hanging Jerusalem and vicinity. In 1 Peter 5:13 he alludes to the fact that he is in Babylon. The Romans try to tell you this is actually Rome but I try to take scripture at face value. If Peter wanted to have us believe he was in Rome he would have said Rome.
The Apostle Paul clarifies in Galatians 2:7 by stipulating that Peter's assignment was the circumcised and his, Pauls.....was the uncircumcised (Rome). In the same chapter Peter shows his lack of primacy by being afraid of those of the circumcision group, verse 12. If he had indeed been given the management of the early church do you think he would display this kind of fear?
Acts 15 is my favorite (Peter has no Primacy) chapter. At the council Peter does speak about the gentiles receiving the Holy Spirit but notice who is in charge. James, the brother of Jesus (The Apostle James was killed earlier in chapter 12). James says in verse 19...."It is my judgment, therefore".... This is the guy in charge....not Peter, and James is not even an Apostle. Remember, the lot fell to Matthias, Acts 1:26......not James.
In Romans 1:13 Paul says he wants to have a harvest among you as he had with other Gentiles (read uncircumcised). In Romans 15:20 Paul proves that Peter was no where around Rome because he says he would not preach upon another's foundation. Peter was never in Rome....it is false tradition.
Genesis 2:3, [And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on that day he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.]
Show me a calendar where Sunday is the seventh day!
Hebrews 4:7, [Therefore God set a certain day, calling it today].....in verse 4 Paul says "somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words".....
If you think that the people of God have somehow missed a day along the trail somewhere, you are gravely mistaken.
Again, God's Calendar is not ours. It doesn't say that Saturday is the seventh day. There is also a scripture about "Woe to you, Pharisee's and Hypocrites"...something about "straining at a nat and swallowing a camel".....
Whether the 7th day is Saturday or Sunday makes NO difference regarding Christ's mercy or salvation. And then there is the issue of worrying about the day used for sabbath, and rejecting the true Church ordained by Christ....
Horse Hockey..He was not only in Rome, but was crucified there, and his remains are buried there. His tomb dates from around 100 AD. That doesn't mean he has primacy, but he was there as Bishop of Rome.
1. RC & EO DO NOT "WORSHIP" DEAD PEOPLE.... Do you ask your Christian Brothers & Sisters to pray for you? In our belief, You have two groups: The Church Militant, (those who are on this earth) and the Church Triumphant, (Those who are in heaven) They are not disconnected from us, even in Heaven. They worship with us in heaven, whenever the Divine Liturgy (or Mass, RC)is celebrated. We ask them to pray for us at the throne...That is all. No Difference. Yes, you do. Even if you don't technically "worship" them, please recall what happened to King Saul when he contacted the spirits of the dead. The is only one intercessor. Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, See, do not do it! I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. My family routinely worships at the foot of a statue of Semaramis, er I mean Diana, er I mean Mary.
2.The accusation of "idolatry" is a most foul heresy that was done away with in the 800's called iconoclasts! Again, you ask for scripture and reply with more commandments of men.
3.What makes you think the 7th day is SATURDAY? God doesn't go by our calendar. ( I can back that up scripturally if you like.) It doesn't say saturday anywhere! Reality check, holmes. The Catholic Church uses its ability to change the Sabbath as a testimony to it's "binding and loosing" power. Please consider reading the Catholic Catechism. Here is an exceprt from http://www.americancatholic.org/messenger/Apr2000/Wiseman.asp#F1: Two quotes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church may help explain the reason for this change. “Jesus rose from the dead ‘on the first day of the week.’ Because it is the ‘first day,’ the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the ‘eighth day’ following the sabbath, it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection” (#2174). Eighth Day theology is from pagan Rome, incidentally. “Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God” (#2175).
5. As for the Theotokos, or Holy Mother of God, I would be careful of what you say on that one. There is a basic premise here older than scripture. I suppose there is something older than scripture as scripture is largely a historical document. You must not confuse my non-worship of Mary as irreverance. She is the greatest woman to have ever lived. Luk 11:27 And it happened as He spoke these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said to Him, Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which You have sucked. Luk 11:28 But He said, No; rather, blessed are they who hear the Word of God and keep it.
Your other points about Limbo, etc. are correct. It's really cool that you put that in there. Proves you really are a Texan.
I highly suspect you are a 7th Day Adventist, and I am highly familar with YOUR church history, and it is more dubious than RC's will ever be! Relevance? One thing I find to be pretty foreign to Catholic types is that many Christian denominations encourage independent study. You guys are really concerned with uniformity, Church Fathers, and "line towing". We generally leave that to the Holy Spirit. Membership in a church and what some layman or clergyman did or said hundreds of years ago isn't going to count a lick at the resurrection.
We can argue some of these points all day long, but the bottom line is this: I believe that Christ gave authority to his Church, including the "binding & loosing" you mentioned. He gave it to the Church, rather than to St. Peter persay, but it was given. The RC & Orthodox Churches have hundreds of years and the guidance of the Church Fathers, some of whom sat at the feet of Jesus himself!
The Adventists were founded in the 1800's by a crackpot who claimed the end of the world was going to happen, and kept changing the story when it didn't.
I will stick with my faith, though poor in your book it may be.
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