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To: TexConfederate1861
You answered your original question: But I am curious, just what tradition is it that YOU believe violates or contradicts scripture? with The Holy Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon... I thought we were talking scripture?

1. RC & EO DO NOT "WORSHIP" DEAD PEOPLE.... Do you ask your Christian Brothers & Sisters to pray for you? In our belief, You have two groups: The Church Militant, (those who are on this earth) and the Church Triumphant, (Those who are in heaven) They are not disconnected from us, even in Heaven. They worship with us in heaven, whenever the Divine Liturgy (or Mass, RC)is celebrated. We ask them to pray for us at the throne...That is all. No Difference. Yes, you do. Even if you don't technically "worship" them, please recall what happened to King Saul when he contacted the spirits of the dead. The is only one intercessor. Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said to me, See, do not do it! I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. My family routinely worships at the foot of a statue of Semaramis, er I mean Diana, er I mean Mary.

2.The accusation of "idolatry" is a most foul heresy that was done away with in the 800's called iconoclasts! Again, you ask for scripture and reply with more commandments of men.

3.What makes you think the 7th day is SATURDAY? God doesn't go by our calendar. ( I can back that up scripturally if you like.) It doesn't say saturday anywhere! Reality check, holmes. The Catholic Church uses its ability to change the Sabbath as a testimony to it's "binding and loosing" power. Please consider reading the Catholic Catechism. Here is an exceprt from http://www.americancatholic.org/messenger/Apr2000/Wiseman.asp#F1: Two quotes from the Catechism of the Catholic Church may help explain the reason for this change. “Jesus rose from the dead ‘on the first day of the week.’ Because it is the ‘first day,’ the day of Christ’s Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the ‘eighth day’ following the sabbath, it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ’s Resurrection” (#2174). Eighth Day theology is from pagan Rome, incidentally. “Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ’s Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man’s eternal rest in God” (#2175).

5. As for the Theotokos, or Holy Mother of God, I would be careful of what you say on that one. There is a basic premise here older than scripture. I suppose there is something older than scripture as scripture is largely a historical document. You must not confuse my non-worship of Mary as irreverance. She is the greatest woman to have ever lived. Luk 11:27 And it happened as He spoke these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said to Him, Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which You have sucked. Luk 11:28 But He said, No; rather, blessed are they who hear the Word of God and keep it.

Your other points about Limbo, etc. are correct. It's really cool that you put that in there. Proves you really are a Texan.

I highly suspect you are a 7th Day Adventist, and I am highly familar with YOUR church history, and it is more dubious than RC's will ever be! Relevance? One thing I find to be pretty foreign to Catholic types is that many Christian denominations encourage independent study. You guys are really concerned with uniformity, Church Fathers, and "line towing". We generally leave that to the Holy Spirit. Membership in a church and what some layman or clergyman did or said hundreds of years ago isn't going to count a lick at the resurrection.

179 posted on 01/05/2006 7:14:26 PM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: kerryusama04

We can argue some of these points all day long, but the bottom line is this: I believe that Christ gave authority to his Church, including the "binding & loosing" you mentioned. He gave it to the Church, rather than to St. Peter persay, but it was given. The RC & Orthodox Churches have hundreds of years and the guidance of the Church Fathers, some of whom sat at the feet of Jesus himself!

The Adventists were founded in the 1800's by a crackpot who claimed the end of the world was going to happen, and kept changing the story when it didn't.

I will stick with my faith, though poor in your book it may be.


180 posted on 01/05/2006 7:42:02 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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