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Vatican Says Jerusalem "Issue" is Too Important to Leave to Israel, PA
www.arutzsheva.net ^ | 19:15 Jan 03, '06 / 3 Tevet 5766

Posted on 01/03/2006 9:34:40 AM PST by Esther Ruth

Vatican Says Jerusalem "Issue" is Too Important to Leave to Israel, PA 19:15 Jan 03, '06 / 3 Tevet 5766

(IsraelNN.com) The legal counsel of the Vatican in Israel, the priest David Jaeger, said today that Jerusalem is too important of an "issue" to be left to Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Jaeger further expressed criticism of Israeli policy regarding holy sites in the country.

"The issue of Jerusalem," the representative of the Roman Catholic Church said, "is to important to leave in the hands of the Israelis and the Palestinians."

The Catholic Church has been making efforts to obtain historical sites in Jerusalem of late, but without public successes.


TOPICS: Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: busybodyromans; important; israel; israelisovereignty; issue; jerusalem; pa; sovereignty; vatican
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To: Pyro7480
That's a nice Christian myth that has nothing to do with reality. Sha'ul was baptized in Acts 9:18; he is still called Sha'ul right through chapter 13. The change had nothing to do with discarding his Jewish heritage (as proven by Acts 21 on), but simply that he was dealing more and more with Gentile audiences and therefore was more and more using his Greek name--even today, it's not uncommon for a Jew to have their birth-name and a more "Gentilized" name that they go by publicly. For example, my own rabbi, who is in fact a born Jew, is both Cameron and Gavri'el.

I choose to use Sha'ul's Hebrew name, as I do all the Apostles, to emphasize the fact that he was a Jew by birth and culture, with a Jewish way of thinking, not a Greek. This is doubly important in the case of Sha'ul, who was not only Jewish, but had learned at the feet of Rabbi Gamaliel of the School of Hillel, still revered today as one of the greatest of Jewish sages.

The Gospel--that God was born into the world in the person of Yeshua, lived a sinless life, died to pay the price of our sins, and rose again on the third day just as He will raise all who put their trust in Him--is such that it can be communicated and understood in every language and culture. However, it's original culture is Jewish, and when we lose sight of the fact that we are the recipients of a culturally-contextualized message and start to think that our Western culture is the "original" Gospel context, we start to misunderstand it.

For example, by imposing a Platonic ideal of virginity on a Jewish marriage, or by misunderstanding a type (the Eucharist, baptism) for the spiritual reality underlying the type, or thinking that "binding and loosing" (i.e., the authority to make halakah, rulings on how to apply the Torah) gives one the authority to change the day of the Sabbath.

Or thinking that we have the right to interfere and "mediate" a dispute between the Palestinians and the physical seed of Abraham, isaac, and Jacob, to whom God has forever given the land of Israel--other than to get firmly on the side of those to whom the lease is given.

101 posted on 01/03/2006 2:28:47 PM PST by Buggman (L'chaim b'Yeshua HaMashiach!)
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To: Buggman

Thanks for all your info on this thread!


102 posted on 01/03/2006 2:29:17 PM PST by Blzbba ("Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart" - Ashe, Housewares)
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To: Pyro7480

Btw, I'm still waiting to hear on what basis I'm supposed to be condemning Sha'ul.


103 posted on 01/03/2006 2:29:37 PM PST by Buggman (L'chaim b'Yeshua HaMashiach!)
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To: adam_az
"Because every pope that is selected is the one that God wants selected, that's why they conclave, they wait for the Holy Spirit to fill them with the spirit so they can make the choice the Lord wants."

So why don't they all vote for the same guy?

What's that, throwing a monkey wrench into the gears??? Ha...

104 posted on 01/03/2006 2:30:36 PM PST by Iscool (Start your own revolution by voting for the candidates the media (and gov't) tells you cannot win.)
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To: Blzbba

You're most welcome. Have a blessed New Year!


105 posted on 01/03/2006 2:41:20 PM PST by Buggman (L'chaim b'Yeshua HaMashiach!)
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To: AzaleaCity5691

One slight correction: The Roman Catholics are NOT the only Church to have Apostolic Sucession.....so does the Holy Orthodox Church.


106 posted on 01/03/2006 2:41:58 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: Buggman
I was referring to this comment: When you follow the example of the Apostles in keeping the Torah as they did (Acts 21)

If I'm supposed to do this, then why did the following take place?

Returning to Acts 15, after much debate and discussion, Peter says that "[God] made no distinction between us [Jews] and them [Gentiles], but cleansed their hearts by faith." (Acts 15:9 KJV), and James the Just (the brother of Jesus) states that "we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who are turning to God" (Acts 15:19 KJV). They sent a letter accompanied by some leaders from the Jerusalem church back with Paul and his party to confirm that the Gentile believers should not be overburdened by Mosaic Law beyond abstaining from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. (Acts 15:29). The letter also refers to Barnabas and Paul as "beloved" (Acts 15:25 KJV); compare Paul's account "James, Cephas [Peter] and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship" (Gal. 2:9 KJV).

107 posted on 01/03/2006 2:41:58 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
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To: pgkdan

Correct....:)


108 posted on 01/03/2006 2:42:54 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: TexConfederate1861

That's right. The only legitimate apostolic churches are the Catholic Church(es) and most of the Orthodox Churches.


109 posted on 01/03/2006 2:43:10 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
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To: RoadTest

You are correct to a point...and it was simply the "Church"
and it wasn't Protestant. (suprise!)


110 posted on 01/03/2006 2:47:52 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: Buggman

Oh, I finally checked out your user profile, and checked out your "church"'s webpage. Are the prescriptions of the Talmud still observed, even though you are supposedly "Messianic"?


111 posted on 01/03/2006 2:48:54 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Sancte Joseph, terror daemonum, ora pro nobis!)
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To: Semper Paratus
"But no problem with the Palis treating the Bethelem Church like a latrine?"

In case anyone missed it, here are the links to refresh their memory...

Stench Fills Jesus' Birthplace After Siege:
PALIS TURN CHURCH INTO TRUCK STOP RESTROOM

May 10, 2002 03:44 PM ET | Paul Casciato and Michael Georgy

Posted on 05/10/2002 4:01:06 PM EDT by Cinnamon Girl

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (Reuters) - The overwhelming stench of urine was the first thing to hit visitors who entered the shrine in Bethlehem revered as the birthplace of Jesus.

The standoff between Palestinian militants and the Israeli army at the Church of the Nativity,[snip]

(Another link LINK)
112 posted on 01/03/2006 2:48:58 PM PST by DocRock
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To: Buggman
Or thinking that we have the right to interfere and "mediate" a dispute between the Palestinians and the physical seed of Abraham, isaac, and Jacob, to whom God has forever given the land of Israel--other than to get firmly on the side of those to whom the lease is given.

Couldn't have said it much better, myself. ;)

113 posted on 01/03/2006 3:11:30 PM PST by Iscool (Start your own revolution by voting for the candidates the media (and gov't) tells you cannot win.)
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To: emiller
My family's clan fought in the Crusades-- I'd be more than happy to start a new one. Ha ha. But this time- let's go to the vatican, and then Gaza.

That's what your ancestors said! Except that they said "this time, let's go to Constantinople first."

114 posted on 01/03/2006 3:13:25 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: Esther Ruth
will be forced out of their churches one way or another because of their stand they will take for Israel.

I will stand.

115 posted on 01/03/2006 3:31:26 PM PST by ichabod1 (Sic Omnia Gloria Fugit)
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To: Pyro7480
The issue in Acts 15 was circumcision as a prerequisite to salvation and full fellowship in the Assembly of Believers, the Church. Basically, some among the Jewish believers were saying that one had to be circumcised, which obligated them to keep the whole Torah (Gal. 5:3) and involved completely giving one's native culture up to become completely Jewish, or else they were not "really" saved or were "lesser" believers.

However, note that Sha'ul denied teaching people to stop obeying the Torah, and was in fact perfectly willing to take a Nazrite oath and perform the attendant sacrifices involved to prove that! Therefore, teaching that any Apostle believed that the Torah was done away with by the coming of the Messiah is false, especially since Yeshua Himself said that not the least letter or penstroke of the Torah would pass away until Heaven and earth did, and that those teaching others to disobey the least commandment would be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven (Mat. 5:17-19)!

Note further that in Ya'akov's judgement in the Council, he finishes by saying, "For Moses from ages past has those in every city proclaiming him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day" (Acts 15:21). Look at what they required for fellowship: "They should abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood" (v. 20). Notice that loving one's neighbor, not stealing, honoring one's parents, and a host of other commands which we would consider as still binding are nowhere there--neither is baptism or the Lord's Supper, for that matter! Are we then to assume that they regarded these commands as the totality of the Torah that Gentiles should follow? Not at all!

Rather, each of these four items seems designed to separate a new believer from their former pagan practices: Idolatry needs no explanation. Fornication was typically done with temple prostitutes. Drinking blood and eating meat sacrificed to idols were also typical practices. Therefore, the minimum requirement for fellowship is that the new believer completely give up all other gods and their worship to worship the true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, alone.

Having done so, they would be considered "clean" enough to enter the synagogues as "God-fearers" and learn about all the Scriptures, including the Torah. From there, the Apostles trusted the Holy Spirit to continue what He had started in their lives.

But the core issue is that the Gentiles who had received the Spirit by faith were already saved, and were learning to walk with God rather than needing to be saved by walking with God in just such-and-such a way. The RCC faces a similar reversal of cause-and-effect when it teaches that baptism is a prerequisite for salvation instead of an act of obedience that comes willingly as a sign of salvation.

116 posted on 01/03/2006 3:32:37 PM PST by Buggman (L'chaim b'Yeshua HaMashiach!)
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To: Buggman

You raise a good point. The jerusalem Council allowed goyim to become christians without becomin Jews, however what is forgotten is that the Mosaic code was still applicable to Jews (christian or Not).
In fact during the Inquisition Jews should not have been tortured into becoming Catholics but rather Orthodox Jewish Christians.
By the way where did nuns and rosary beads come from?


117 posted on 01/03/2006 3:35:19 PM PST by avile
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To: RobbyS
HERE he entered history and he has never left.

I was listening to a bible study the other day and offered an offhand prayer that I might get something new out of the scripture being discussed. Well, the speaker mentioned that since God the Father, and Jesus Christ his only begotten Son are outside of time as we know it, that when we pray, or worship, or take part in Holy Communion, we comfort him on the Cross, since that time was, is, and always will be NOW in some mystical sense.

118 posted on 01/03/2006 3:35:25 PM PST by ichabod1 (Sic Omnia Gloria Fugit)
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To: Buggman
which would have to be chosen by laying on of hands, not election by the cardinals in any case

All RC Priests and Bishops are chosen by laying on of hands. Y'all are getting stuck on the POPE. Don't get stuck on stupid. It's the Apostles (all of them) and their successors that are important, not just the Pope.

And Pius XII was a glorious, wonderful man, not some nazi enabler.

119 posted on 01/03/2006 3:42:33 PM PST by ichabod1 (Sic Omnia Gloria Fugit)
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To: Buggman

"Rather, each of these four items seems designed to separate a new believer from their former pagan practices: Idolatry needs no explanation. Fornication was typically done with temple prostitutes. Drinking blood and eating meat sacrificed to idols were also typical practices. Therefore, the minimum requirement for fellowship is that the new believer completely give up all other gods and their worship to worship the true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, alone. "

Basically the Laws of Bnai Noach


120 posted on 01/03/2006 3:48:00 PM PST by avile
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