GOA - Fight Gun Registration Provisions in PATRIOT Act

EMail ^ | 12-21-2005 | Gun Owners of America

[jmc813]

Twice, the leadership in the U.S. Senate has tried to run H.R. 3199 up "the hill." Twice it has failed.

On Friday, supporters of the bill failed to garner the 60 votes needed to stop the filibuster of the PATRIOT conference report. The final vote was 52-47.

At issue for gun owners is a provision that would allow the FBI to obtain "firearms sales records." The bill extends Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act and allows agents of the federal government to get "firearms sales records" which, in their opinion, are relevant to investigating terrorism.

These records would be obtained from gun dealers, who are required by law to keep the gun purchase records (4473 forms). Thus, an anti-gun administration could then easily compile gun owner registration lists -- an enterprise which has often been a prelude to gun confiscation.

Congressmen on both sides of the fence made reference to GOA's concerns last week when the House considered the latest version of H.R. 3199.

During the debate, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) stated that people "should take note of what is happening here because the expanded police powers of the Federal Government will be used against them. Our Second Amendment friends already understand that...."

And Rep. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) challenged House Republicans to consider whether they are really comfortable with "allowing the FBI to access Americans' reading records, GUN RECORDS, medical records and financial records without judicial approval; [or] allowing the FBI to search someone's home without probable cause and without telling that person about the search."

In the Senate, Larry Craig (R-ID) and Russ Feingold (D-WI) led the opposition to the latest version of the bill. If a compromise is not reached, 16 provisions of the bill will expire on December 31 -- provisions that include the Section 215 "gun registration" language.

Much has been made of the expiration date later this month. People should understand that only 16 provisions of the original PATRIOT Act will expire on New Year's -- and these provisions are some of the most controversial ones in the original act, as they affect the Fourth Amendment protections that American citizens enjoy.

REGISTRATION OF GUN OWNERS

H.R. 3199 would extend provisions which the FBI claims would allow it to seize 4473 forms, without the approval of any judge.

This runs contrary to the protections that were gained in the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986, when it prohibited the establishment of any registration system with respect to firearms [18 USC 926(a)(3)]. It is also significant to note that federal code bans inspections of gun dealers records, excluding four, narrowly tailored exceptions [18 USC 923(g)(1)(b)]. Those exceptions are absent with regard to the FBI's current practice of soliciting 4473 forms under the PATRIOT Act.

The protections that were won during the McClure-Volkmer battle took years to achieve, and it would be a shame to see those protections superseded by another enactment of gun control -- all in the vain hope that gun owners' purchase records can somehow help authorities curb terrorism. (Gun registration certainly hasn't worked to curb crime in any of the states or localities that have implemented it.)

For this reason, Gun Owners of America has told Senators that we would like to see serious reforms in this bill, including language which further restricts the ability of a future, anti-gun administration to muster a gun owner registration list.

The status of H.R. 3199 is unclear at this time. But it is more than likely that the Senate will hold another vote later this week.

ACTION: Please contact your two Senators and urge them to vote against the House-Senate conference report on H.R. 3199, unless gun records are removed from the records which can be demanded under Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act.

You can visit the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators a pre-written e-mail message such as the one below.

-----Pre-written letter-----

Dear Senator:

Please vote against the current version of the PATRIOT reauthorization bill (HR 3199) because it would extend provisions which the FBI claims would allow it to seize 4473 forms, without the approval of any judge.

This runs contrary to the protections that were gained in the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986, when it prohibited the establishment of any registration system with respect to firearms [see 18 USC 926(a)(3)]. It is also significant to note that the law bans inspections of gun dealers records, excluding four, narrowly tailored exceptions [18 USC 923(g)(1)(b)]. Those exceptions are absent with regard to the FBI's current practice of soliciting 4473 forms under the PATRIOT Act.

You are certainly familiar with the rule of construction that deems more recent legislation to trump older legislation when there is a clear conflict between the two. The protections that were won during the McClure-Volkmer battle took years to achieve, and it would be a shame to see those protections superseded by another enactment of gun control -- all in the vain hope that gun owners' purchase records can somehow help authorities curb terrorism. (Gun registration certainly hasn't worked to curb crime in any of the states or localities that have implemented it.)

It is imperative that H.R. 3199 be amended to protect gun owner rights.

Please vote against cloture on H.R. 3199, unless gun records are removed from the records which can be demanded under Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act -- a move which would return the McClure-Volkmer protections as the operative law concerning when and where gun records can be demanded.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

[An Old Man]

"I use VOIP, so they can't tap my end"

Do you want to play --YOU BET YER LIFE-- ?

Semper Fi

[aligncare]

Both appointees & appointers take the same oath to support the US Constitution. Can you agree?

Absolutely agree. But, by extension, appointers can lose their job in the next election. Just try getting rid of a bad judge...lifetime appointment for judges.

And, lets not forget the liberal nature of law schools and lawyers in general.

[mrsmith]

Gun dealers are not on the list.

They don't seem to even fit the congress's definition or intent: Nevertheless, if the secretary wanted to add them he would have to first say he was going to in the Federal Register:

"...(Y) any business or agency which engages in any activity which the Secretary of the Treasury determines, by regulation, to be an activity which is similar to, related to, or a substitute for any activity in which any business described in this paragraph is authorized to engage; or (Z) any other business designated by the Secretary whose cash transactions have a high degree of usefulness in criminal, tax, or regulatory matters."

"... The Conferees intend that this authority be used for accessing records and information from financial institutions for counterintelligence, foreign intelligence, and international terrorism investigations."
You got to admit it's hard to fit a domestic "gun registry" into that definition.

[G.Mason]

"Many times, I get no response at all."

I've had the same thing happen, and after a reasonable time I write them a snail mail. That always has gotten their attention.

Not that they give a rat's behind, mind you, but it gets it off my chest.

[B4Ranch]

"(3) No application shall be made under this section for an order requiring the production of library circulation records, library patron lists, book sales records, book customer lists, firearms sales records, or medical records containing personally identifiable information (snip)"

Read the paragragh above.

Then add this [without the prior written approval of the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.] to it and you see that the courts have been removed from the process. It would all be determined by the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

None of [y]our rights and/or liberties should ever be determined by a government official who can be dismissed by the President!




without the prior written approval of the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

[B4Ranch]

I noticed that you didn't answer the questions. Would you care to do that now?

Then read http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1544717/posts?page=85#85

[Realism]

They can have all the tools they need, to a point. Beyond that point can not and will not ever be acceptable.

That imaginary line in the sand. They don't step over it, they just move it a little at a time. They /we its all the same since our government is by the people, for the people.

[antiRepublicrat]

Do you want to play --YOU BET YER LIFE-- ?

No. The first rule of security is that nothing is secure. But the infrastructure for a tap isn't there now, making the odds pretty low.

[mysterio]

Notice how they get really quiet when you point out the specific areas of the "patriot" act that are patently and unavoidable unconstitutional?

But then they show up a week later in another "patriot" act thread arguing the same disproved drivel. Funny.

[Myrddin]

An FFL is required to keep the 4473's on file forever. The BATFE is authorized to inspected and/or collect them anytime it sees fit. Unless the Patriot Act mandates creation of a searchable database of 4473 information, I see nothing different from the status quo.

[antiRepublicrat]

Gun dealers are not on the list. They don't seem to even fit the congress's definition or intent:

They do. Pawn shops are on the list, and most of those are also gun dealers, making a gun dealer "related to, or a substitute for" one of the businesses listed. Gun dealers also have a potentially high degree of usefulness in criminal investigations. So it's clearly within the meaning of the law to include gun dealers.

All it takes is a bureaucrat to decide, and all of your records are open for perusal without a warrant.

[freepatriot32]

A New Jersey man accused with using a laser to beam pilots of two planes has been charged under the Patriot Act. The FBI has acknowledged that the incident does not have any relation to terrorism but called David Banach's actions "foolhardy and negligent."

"An analysis of the Justice Department's own list of terrorism prosecutions by The Washington Post shows that 39 people, not 200, as officials have implied, were convicted of crimes related to terrorism or national security."

The Post report said, "Most of the others were convicted of relatively minor crimes such as making false statements and violating immigration law and had nothing to do with terrorism."

Treasury Department figures reviewed by Newsweek show that this year the Feds have used the Patriot Act to conduct searches on 962 suspects, yielding "hits" on 6,397 financial records. Of those, two thirds (4,261) were in money-laundering cases with no terror connection. Among the agencies making requests, Newsweek has learned, were the IRS (which investigates tax fraud), the Postal Service (postal fraud) and the Secret Service counterfeiting). One request came from the Agriculture Department -- a case that apparently involved food stamp fraud.

Earlier this year, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri filed an action against PayPal for violating the PATRIOT Act (18 U.S.C. 1960), based on PayPal's use in processing funds transfered for online gambling."

There are other troublesome aspects of The Patriot Act. Take, for example, Title III, aimed at money laundering. This became part of the Act at the insistence of Democrats that include Senators Daschle and Kerry. The Justice Department has used it to investigate corruption allegations against a Las Vegas strip club owner!

then there wasthe case that i cant find a link to right now where the department of homeland security raided a mom and pop toy store in oregon and forced them to stop selling copys of knock off rubics cubes after the rubiks company called them even though thier patent ran out in 1995
and for all the friggin bots here that think gun confiscation will never happen in america especially under a republican president dont ever forget new orleans chp officer confiscating guns on camera

[aligncare]

You make excellent points...and I agree. There is in the nature of societies, a desire to control others' behavior.

Yes, we have that in our society, and I disagree with some drug laws.

Now back to important issues such as life and death and the protection, no - survival of our less-than-perfect form of constitutional government.

If we're dead, we can't continue the great experiment in self government; and we can't continue to improve it. That's my bottom line.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I have no illusions that Bush is a true supporter of the 2nd Amendment. If he was, he would have stripped the ATF of the majority of it's powers the day he went into office.

[antiRepublicrat]

If we're dead, we can't continue the great experiment in self government; and we can't continue to improve it. That's my bottom line.

There's no way the terrorists can kill us all. Their biggest victory killed about .001% of us and took out a few buildings. My bottom line is that out of fear we have ceased to try to improve, in fact going the opposite direction.

[untrained skeptic]

Only in the case of agents of foreign governments or foreigners. Even then it requires the prior apporval of the Director of the FBI.

This doesn't allow for a wide scale fishing expidition.

It doesn't allow for creating a firearms registry.

[antiRepublicrat]

I have no illusions that Bush is a true supporter of the 2nd Amendment. If he was, he would have stripped the ATF of the majority of it's powers the day he went into office.

Or said flat-out that he will veto any extension of the assault weapons ban. He's just lucky he ducked that issue because it didn't pass Congress.

[An Old Man]

From Business Week August 8, 2005
"In The Datasphere, No Word Goes Unheard "

"For decades, Echelon's electronic ears have been scooping up all communications relayed by satellite, microwave towers, and even some fiber-optic and copper cables. Each day's intercepts -- phone calls, e-mails, and Web uploads and downloads -- would fill the Library of Congress 10 times."

You Wrote: "But the infrastructure for a tap isn't there now, making the odds pretty low."

The infrastructure is in place and works very well. VOIP is just another packet to be sniffed by some great software.

Semper Fi

[Dead Corpse]

It doesn't "allow" it, but that isn't stopping them. And how much "wider" does their current fishing technique have to be before you object to it?

[kx9088]

What do you think would really happen if they tried to take peoples firearms from them?