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Military aircraft following commercial airliner
12/19/05 | Jigsaw John

Posted on 12/19/2005 6:25:35 PM PST by Jigsaw John

Just observed what appeared to be 3 or 4 jet aircraft, (military type fighter aircraft), following a commercial airliner, westbound into LAX about 2 minutes ago. From the OC area.

My first thought was possibly AF-1 but I don't think POTUS is in the region.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: fighterjets; lax; nobleeagle
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To: Cementjungle
That definitely considered and part of the topic of conversation here.
81 posted on 12/19/2005 11:25:39 PM PST by Jigsaw John
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To: Cementjungle

There should be awareness; I honestly believe US aviation is under attack. Unlikely, though, they'd dump $20K in jet fuel for a drill.


82 posted on 12/19/2005 11:28:14 PM PST by txhurl (hook'em)
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To: txflake

I think he was referring to our initial observations regarding the military aircraft. Not the Air India incident.


83 posted on 12/19/2005 11:29:48 PM PST by Jigsaw John
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To: Cementjungle
Sorry, got the two threads mixed up.

Scramble = good exercise and preparedness.
Indian jet dumping fuel = expensive.

84 posted on 12/19/2005 11:32:09 PM PST by txhurl (hook'em)
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To: txflake
Sorry, got the two threads mixed up.

No prob... I already knew the Air India thing was a straightford thing.

85 posted on 12/19/2005 11:35:07 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Cementjungle
Maybe we knew that a plane was going to be shot down!!

Posted on Tue, Dec. 20, 2005 The Miami Herald

THE CRASH `It just burst and it went right down' All 20 people aboard, including three infants, were killed when a seaplane operated by a Fort Lauderdale-based airline crashed near Miami Beach. By MATTHEW I. PINZUR mpinzur@MiamiHerald.com

A seaplane's fiery plunge

A Chalk's seaplane burst into flames over South Beach on Monday, killing all 20 people on board -- including three infants -- and plummeting into the ocean so close to shore that lifeguards, surfers and Jet Skiers were the first on the scene.

The cause of the crash remained unknown, but witnesses said the plane's rear half exploded, shearing off the left wing and sending the flight tumbling to the sea shortly after its 2:30 p.m. takeoff from Watson Island.

''All of a sudden it just burst into a big ball of fire and it went right down,'' said Larry Little, 59, who was working construction on the Apogee building in South Pointe and watched the plane somersault into the water.

There were 20 people aboard the Chalk's Ocean Airways Flight 101: two pilots, 15 ticketed passengers and three infants. Many were believed to be from Bimini, the Bahamian island cluster where the flight was heading.

Nineteen bodies were recovered Monday, and Coast Guard Petty Officer Dana Warr said the search for the last one continued until 9:45 p.m.

''It's over,'' said Warr, a Coast Guard spokesman. ``It's no longer a search-and-rescue operation. It's recovery and salvage.''

The majority of the passengers were found inside the largely intact fuselage, which authorities said came to rest in about 35 feet of water near the rock jetty at the mouth of Government Cut.

''I ran there and when I got there, there were four or five boats looking in the water,'' said Jeff Anderson, 34, who was surfing nearby. ``I didn't see anybody that looked like survivors. I didn't see anybody at all.''

Chalk's, which operates the Grumman G73-T Mallard airplane, is based in Fort Lauderdale and flies to Bimini and Paradise Island in the Bahamas. The plane normally holds 17 passengers plus two pilots, but Chalk's owner Jim Confalone said infants are allowed unticketed.

The flight was to land in Bimini at 9:40 a.m., but long delays are typical of small commuter airlines such as Chalk's. The reason for the delay was unclear.

''We can't make any comments because we don't have enough information at this time to even comment on,'' said Confalone, who was out of town but spoke with The Miami Herald on Monday afternoon. ``They are recovering people out of the water right now as we speak.''

More than a dozen investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board arrived in Miami late Monday and expected to try to raise the wreck this morning. The plane carried a cockpit voice recorder, but not the data recorders found on larger commercial jets.

''We'll be looking at everything in this investigation,'' said Mark Rosenker, acting NTSB chairman. ``Nothing is off the table.''

The inquiry into the crash's cause is expected to take at least a year.

VIDEO OF CRASH

Investigators will be aided by a 26-second amateur video, which provided a rare glimpse of a doomed plane's last moments. It shows billows of thick, black smoke tracing the downward arc. A piece that appears to be the left wing or part of an engine breaks away in a blaze of flame, following the cabin into the water.

''It does look like an engine explosion, and an explosion so violent it sent the plane out of control,'' said Mary Schiavo, a former inspector general for the Department of Transportation.

The plane was 58 years old, and Schiavo said its age could have been a factor.

''To be in daily passenger service, that is unheard of -- to be in such punishing service, over saltwater,'' said Schiavo, who now works as an air-disaster attorney in Charleston, S.C. ``This is just an incredibly old plane to be operating and carrying passengers.''

The plane that crashed Monday -- which can take off and land from the water or a runway -- was built in 1947 and had a history of mishaps, according to Federal Aviation Administration records. The FAA called all the mishaps minor because there were no injuries and no substantial damage to the plane.

INCIDENTS

It suffered minor damage to the float under its left wing after the landing gear failed just before touchdown at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport in 2004. Another landing-gear failure in 2002, at the same airport, sent the plane skidding down the runway.

In 1987, the plane had to make an emergency landing at sea after its pilots mismanaged the fuel supply. In 1984, the plane's control column suffered ''extreme shaking'' while descending into West Palm Beach, records show.

According to the airline's website, its fleet is ``undergoing an extensive refurbishment program which includes complete mechanical overhaul and cosmetic renovation, in addition to all new interior appointments.''

An FAA spokeswoman said Monday night the agency would not immediately ground the four other planes in Chalk's fleet, a move normally reserved for specific violations of air-safety rules.

''The accident has to be completely investigated,'' said spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen.

The last crash of a Chalk's plane came in 2000, when 15 passengers were virtually unscathed after an accident off Watson Island. Six years earlier -- under a previous owner -- two crew members were killed when an otherwise-empty plane crashed off Key West. Those 1994 deaths were the only fatalities in Chalk's 86-year history.

Unlike commercial flights, Chalk's passengers and luggage do not go through security checks by the Transportation Security Administration, Confalone said.

''It's too early to speculate as to why it would happen,'' Confalone said. `We've never heard of it happening before.''

Chalk's Miami operations had recently come under scrutiny from city of Miami leaders, who questioned whether Chalk's had been operating at Watson Island according to its contract with the city. The iconic company -- whose planes appeared during Miami Vice's opening-credit montage -- had been warned its contract was in jeopardy.

''They weren't paying the city, they were canceling flights with no notice,'' Miami City Commissioner Tomás Regalado said. For some time, Regalado said, Chalk's Miami facility had lacked customs officials to screen passengers, which Regalado worried created security gaps.

''There was no one to check what or who was in those planes,'' Regalado said. ``To me, it was a weird situation.''

THE SEARCH

Monday afternoon's search-and-rescue effort began with lifeguards and people on surfboards and Jet Skis, who pulled at least a few bodies to land. At least five of those lifeguards were taken to Mount Sinai Medical Center, a precautionary measure because they may have been exposed to fuel in the water.

Within 30 minutes, the landscape was dotted with flashing red and blue lights -- Coast Guard cutters floated on the water, a rescue helicopter hovered and fire-rescue trucks clustered near the South Pointe sand.

Hazardous-materials teams prepared to deal with diesel fuel in the water, and men in white protective gear were seen lifting body bags off boats at the Miami Beach Coast Guard station. The FBI was also on the scene, but spokeswoman Judy Orihuela said there was ''no intelligence'' linking the crash to terrorism.

CUT CLOSED

The mishap also forced the closure of Government Cut, the area's main shipping channel. Three cruise ships scheduled to depart Monday evening were stuck in port indefinitely, along with one cargo vessel. Three more cargo ships were waiting offshore to unload their containers, said port spokeswoman Andria Muniz.

''There is a big debris field,'' said Warr, the Coast Guard spokesman. ``Right now you don't need a 1,000-foot or 1,200-foot cruise ship going through the crash scene.''

Obie Wilchcombe, the member of parliament for Bimini and Bahamian Minister of Tourism, said Chalk's informed him that at least 11 of those on board were from Bimini. Seven were members of the same extended family, according to relatives who came to the Miami-Dade Medical Examiner's Office.

Bimini is a small community of about 1,600 people who live on the tiny islands, 50 miles east of South Florida. Many fly to South Florida for day trips, especially for holiday shopping, and Bahamas Prime Minister Perry Christie asked his nation to join him in prayer.

''The entire island is upset right now,'' said Bimini resident Lloyd Edgecombe. ``We are a small community. This thing has crushed the entire community.''

Miami Herald staff writers Susan Anasagasti, Jerry Berrios, Noah Bierman, Theresa Bradley, Cara Buckley, Jacqueline Charles, Ina Paiva Cordle, Oscar Corral, Trenton Daniel, Jack Dolan, Steve Harrison, Jennifer Lebovich, Sara Olkon, David Ovalle, Chuck Rabin, Carol Rosenberg, Andrea Torres, Michael Vasquez and Jay Weaver contributed to this report, which contains information from the Tribune Newspaper in Nassau.

SBD
86 posted on 12/19/2005 11:49:02 PM PST by SBD1
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To: SBD1
Maybe we knew that a plane was going to be shot down!!

For what it's worth, I think your post has little to do with this thread, and I would advise you not to jump to premature conclusions regarding the Miami incident, or any other incident.

87 posted on 12/20/2005 12:07:28 AM PST by Jigsaw John
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To: txflake; tertiary01

Thanks for the ping!


88 posted on 12/20/2005 4:48:59 AM PST by texianyankee
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To: Velveeta; 3D-JOY

FYI


89 posted on 12/20/2005 4:51:56 AM PST by texianyankee
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To: Jigsaw John

After reading the entire thread, my thought, too, is that this was some type of military exercise involving possible scenarios of homeland defense.

It could have been threat-type based; perhaps intel suggesting a type of situation that terrorists have trained or planned for and we are training to counter it. Or we could have some creative thinkers wargaming possible scenarios they think terrorists might try.

If we don't hear about it, including the one in Houston or others, for sure it must be training and not an actual incident.


90 posted on 12/20/2005 5:29:04 AM PST by txrangerette
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To: DennisR
My thought when I heard this by this anti-American creep was...and how do you think for 30+yrs the Iraqis felt when Saddam's thugs came into their doors?

Most Iraqis welcomed our troops in to their homes. Look at Fallujah...Iraqis left our troops notes telling them they could use their homes to sleep and eat, then thanking them.

91 posted on 12/20/2005 7:04:55 AM PST by shield (The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instructions.Pr 1:7)
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To: Jigsaw John

Maybe the fighters were lost.


92 posted on 12/20/2005 7:06:02 AM PST by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: neodad
I miss sig alerts. Not.

I miss them as well, not.

However, In a performance appraisal I had when I lived in So Cal, I was asked what some of my goals were. I told my boss that one of my goals was to never be a sig alert. He laughed pretty hard. I think it helped my review.

However, now I just sit in Houston traffic waxing nostalgic about sig alerts.
93 posted on 12/20/2005 7:15:01 AM PST by OC_Steve (Fire Millen!!!)
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To: texianyankee; 3D-JOY; Velveeta; BooksForTheRight.com; sandyeggo; Lizarde; Lazamataz; ...

PING

Also what about that flight down off Florida with suspicious circumstances, with 19 dead, that was all over Fox last night. Is there a thread on that? I did a search but came up with nothing.


94 posted on 12/20/2005 7:59:10 AM PST by tertiary01 (Dems ..the party that repeats history's mistakes over and over and....)
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To: tertiary01
Also what about that flight down off Florida with suspicious circumstances, with 19 dead, that was all over Fox last night. Is there a thread on that?

Yes.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1543478/posts <- Here

95 posted on 12/20/2005 8:06:05 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Jigsaw John

Strange thing happened here on the Front Range last week. I live just north of Boulder, Co. and was walking my dog in the evening when I heard a sonic boom. It must have been fairly high up because it didn't break any windows in the houses. A few minutes later there was another one that shook things up a bit. As most of you know breaking the sound barrier over a populated area near class B airspace (Denver) is a no-no. Something, somewhere had gotten someones panties in a wad. Northcom is about 100 miles south of here. Hmmm.


96 posted on 12/20/2005 8:07:58 AM PST by dljordan
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To: Cboldt

Thanks


97 posted on 12/20/2005 8:12:50 AM PST by tertiary01 (Dems ..the party that repeats history's mistakes over and over and....)
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To: tertiary01

Glad to see someone posted the Florida plane crash thread info.

The Port is CLOSED!!! Will be until operations are complete.

No ships in...no ships out. Just saying.

Oh, guess who is the head of the Port of Miami?


98 posted on 12/20/2005 8:45:19 AM PST by milford421
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To: Jigsaw John
For what it's worth, I think your post has little to do with this thread

Others seem to think it could be related. I would advise you not to jump to premature conclusions regarding the Miami incident, or any other incident.

It's not jumping to conclusons, it's call speculation which adds to the discussion an element that might warrent further investigation.

SBD
99 posted on 12/20/2005 9:23:02 AM PST by SBD1
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To: tertiary01

I am listening on local news...hourly they are asking for people with pictures and video to call them...weird.

They are going to raise the plane too....more to come?


100 posted on 12/20/2005 9:42:50 AM PST by 3D-JOY
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