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Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
TIME.com ^ | Dec. 8, 2005 | Siobhan Morrissey

Posted on 12/08/2005 12:21:37 PM PST by Rennes Templar

A passenger on Flight 924 gives his account of the shooting and says Rigoberto Alpizar never claimed to have a bomb

By SIOBHAN MORRISSEY/MIAMI

At least one passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 924 maintains the federal air marshals were a little too quick on the draw when they shot and killed Rigoberto Alpizar as he frantically attempted to run off the airplane shortly before take-off.

"I don't think they needed to use deadly force with the guy," says John McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla. "He was getting off the plane." McAlhany also maintains that Alpizar never mentioned having a bomb.

"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked, 'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they called it."

When the incident began McAlhany was in seat 24C, in the middle of the plane. "[Alpizar] was in the back," McAlhany says, "a few seats from the back bathroom. He sat down." Then, McAlhany says, "I heard an argument with his wife. He was saying 'I have to get off the plane.' She said, 'Calm down.'"

Alpizar took off running down the aisle, with his wife close behind him. "She was running behind him saying, 'He's sick. He's sick. He's ill. He's got a disorder," McAlhany recalls. "I don't know if she said bipolar disorder [as one witness has alleged]. She was trying to explain to the marshals that he was ill. He just wanted to get off the plane."

McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do, with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."

By the time Alpizar made it to the front of the airplane, the crew had ordered the rest of the passengers to get down between the seats. "I didn't see him get shot," he says. "They kept telling me to get down. I heard about five shots."

McAlhany says he tried to see what was happening just in case he needed to take evasive action. "I wanted to make sure if anything was coming toward me and they were killing passengers I would have a chance to break somebody's neck," he says. "I was looking through the seats because I wanted to see what was coming.

"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."

In the ensuing events, many of the passengers began crying in fear, he recalls. "They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of pointing them to the ground," he says "One little girl was crying. There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."

McAlhany said he saw Alpizar before the flight and is absolutely stunned by what unfolded on the airplane. He says he saw Alpizar eating a sandwich in the boarding area before getting on the plane. He looked normal at that time, McAlhany says. He thinks the whole thing was a mistake: "I don't believe he should be dead right now."


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1lessloon; airlinesecurity; alpizar; bfd; dumcalhany; flight924; johnmcalhany; liar; mcalhany
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To: hedgie

You have no basis for concluding the sky marshalls were negligent. They acted under ambiguous and difficult circumstances, they acted decisively, and an innocent man is dead. But their actions cannot be judged in hindsight, but according to the information they had at the time.


401 posted on 12/08/2005 4:00:17 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: Great Caesars Ghost

Absolutely not.

Procedure for air marshalls is if you shoot, it must be shoot to kill. You don't get a second chance if someone is going for a bomb.

sr


402 posted on 12/08/2005 4:02:11 PM PST by seanrobins (http://www.seanrobins.com)
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To: toddlintown

""He came on a plane from Ecquador."

Ughh! Hope it cleaned it up."

BWahahahahaha! (*chuclkes*)

Good thing I didn't have a mouthful of soda right then.


403 posted on 12/08/2005 4:02:36 PM PST by Bones75
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To: JeffAtlanta

"A plane on the ground isn't going to become a flying missile."

Right. It's just going to be a flaming puddle of metal with charred people somewhere in side.


404 posted on 12/08/2005 4:02:57 PM PST by toddlintown (Lennon takes six bullets to the chest, Yoko is standing right next to him and not one f'ing bullet?)
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To: cripplecreek

Looks like it. The PMS MSM are gonna milk this for all they can..then it's gonna be back to bashing Bush directly.


405 posted on 12/08/2005 4:03:29 PM PST by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: JeffAtlanta

Are you suggesting there must actually BE a bomb to justify deadly force? Information that would lead a reasonable person to believe (in hindsight, erroneously) there was bomb would never be sufficient to justify deadly force? Do you really require godlike, omniscient insight and perception?


406 posted on 12/08/2005 4:04:14 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: JCEccles

"You have no basis for concluding the sky marshalls were negligent. They acted under ambiguous and difficult circumstances, they acted decisively, and an innocent man is dead. But their actions cannot be judged in hindsight, but according to the information they had at the time."

I agree with you there. And personally I am not saying the Air Marshals were negligent. Honestly, I would NOT want that job, and I am sure the AM(s) who pulled the trigger on this guy must feel pretty awful about what happened. (I know I would)

But what I am saying is, yesterday I had this pegged as the Air Marshals doing their job, taking out a dangerous maniac who said he had a bomb. However the more and more facts come to light, the more I think that this was a really tragic accident and the guy really should be alive right now. I don't think it's a bad thing to re-evaluate the situation as new details come to light.


407 posted on 12/08/2005 4:06:18 PM PST by Bones75
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To: JCEccles
Are you suggesting there must actually BE a bomb to justify deadly force?

Please read and understand the posts before replying to them.

I stated that the man was being chased because he caused a commotion and started running up the aisle. Another poster said that he might have started running because he was caught trying to detonate the bomb by the air marshals. I said this was impossible and I was told that I couldn't possibly know that unless I was on the plane or was Karnac.

I replied that it was impossible since there was no bomb on the plane. Does that help?

408 posted on 12/08/2005 4:09:36 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: Bones75
However the more and more facts come to light, the more I think that this was a really tragic accident and the guy really should be alive right now. I don't think it's a bad thing to re-evaluate the situation as new details come to light.

"Facts" based on witness recollections of an event do not improve and become more accurate with age. Quite the opposite.

409 posted on 12/08/2005 4:09:42 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: toddlintown
"The marshals were only chasing him because he was running off the plane. They weren't chasing him because they caught him in the act of trying to detonate."

Really? Were you on the plane too or just The Great Carnec?

I think the point that was trying to be made was that his running, etc. is what drew attention. If he'd have quietly pushed the button while sitting at the back of plane, or while "walking normally" up the aisle, the detonation would have occurred without air marshal attention. The passenger was on the plane and seated for some time without drawing any LEO attention.

410 posted on 12/08/2005 4:10:55 PM PST by Cboldt
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To: toddlintown
Right. It's just going to be a flaming puddle of metal with charred people somewhere in side.

True, but it's not going to become a missile. That was the point of the discussion I was having with another poster that claimed that it was a concern.

The tactical situation of a plane on the ground sitting at the gate is different than that of a plane that is in the air. Saying that the situations are different doesn't mean anything more than they are different.

411 posted on 12/08/2005 4:13:17 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: JeffAtlanta

"How dense are you. The feds have reported that there was no bomb on the plane. How could he have tried to detonate a bomb that didn't exist?"

And how would they not know this until after the fact?

Are you a DU troll or just dense?


412 posted on 12/08/2005 4:15:55 PM PST by toddlintown (Lennon takes six bullets to the chest, Yoko is standing right next to him and not one f'ing bullet?)
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To: daybreakcoming
IDIOT!! You have Federal Marshals with guns aimed at you and they order you to lay flat - then you become as one with the floor/ground.

LOL! Not funny, but reminds me that I slept on my stomach until I gave birth each time. That was without an armed, locked & loaded Air Marshall telling me to hit the dirt.

If I had just a fanny pack, it would have been sucked into my abdominal cavity like the alien came out of the chest in the movie. Only much faster.

413 posted on 12/08/2005 4:17:16 PM PST by Protect the Bill of Rights (GOP, The Other France)
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To: JCEccles

""Facts" based on witness recollections of an event do not improve and become more accurate with age. Quite the opposite."

Well these are the first time I have heard any statments at al from the passengers. So if there are earlier reports from passengers before the ones coming out today, I'm all ears. I don't think that anyone on that plane would have forgotten such key points from the incident like "Did he or did he not claim to have a bomb?" by the next day.


414 posted on 12/08/2005 4:18:13 PM PST by Bones75
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To: toddlintown
And how would they not know this until after the fact?

You aren't understanding the conversation. Look it is obvious that the air marshals did not catch him trying to detonate a bomb. I can say this with certainty because (1) there was no bomb on the plane and (2) the feds are reporting that they chased him because he caused a commotion and running up the aisle.

You may be confused as I am not expecting the air marshals to know whether there was a bomb on the plane or not. I have repeatedly said that given the current information, they did they only thing they could. It's unfortunate for the guy, but the air marshals were put in a situation where they had to act decisively.

What exactly is your problem with this?

415 posted on 12/08/2005 4:20:04 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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To: West Coast Conservative
This is just one witness. I'll wait for further corroboration before reaching the conclusion that the marshals were wrong to shoot the guy.

And that is the correct position to take. I'll wait too.

However, I am a little disturbed at what appears to be an obvious discrepancy here.

Yesterday, several in law enforcement stated that the suspect was running up and down the isles yelling, "I have a bomb".

The reported witness, John McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla clearly seems to be disputing this.

416 posted on 12/08/2005 4:24:34 PM PST by Jigsaw John
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To: seanrobins
Are you saying that you can conclude--based on a TIME magazine story based upon a single interview with one passenger--that this guy didn't run off the plane babling about a bomb?

See my post 317 for a link to a CNN article and the video interview with other passengers...who don't mention Alpizar making a "bomb" threat.

From the CNN story:

Dave Adams, a spokesman for the Federal Air Marshal Service, said Alpizar had run up and down the plane's aisle yelling, "I have a bomb in my bag."

If the air marshals were correct, almost every passenger would have been aware of the bomb threat; I have seen no passenger claim that there was a bomb threat. It would seem that the air marshals' statement is at least a great misunderstanding; perhaps even a lie. If the air marshals have misreported the making of a bomb threat on the plane, a claim that Alpizar also made a bomb threat when he was off the plane has no credibility.

417 posted on 12/08/2005 4:25:27 PM PST by MRMEAN (Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of congress;but I repeat myself. Mark Twain)
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To: JeffAtlanta

I give up. You're hopeless, as others have also pointed out.


418 posted on 12/08/2005 4:26:18 PM PST by toddlintown (Lennon takes six bullets to the chest, Yoko is standing right next to him and not one f'ing bullet?)
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To: JeffAtlanta
The issue is whether, under highly pressured circumstances, with potentially dozens or hundreds of lives in the balance, the sky marshalls were justified in acting on the belief that there was a bomb.

Now, you may not like or agree with the law of self-defense or defense of others, but the law allows you (as it does sky marshalls) to be wrong and and even take a life as long as you act reasonably on the basis of information available to you when you acted. Your right to defend yourself or others from apparent lethal force by applying lethal force is not judged in hindsight.

What is your rationale for subverting the right self-defense in this manner?

419 posted on 12/08/2005 4:28:42 PM PST by JCEccles
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To: toddlintown

I gave up on you long ago. How dense can you be to still think that the guy actually had a bomb when the feds say that he didn't.

Do you think they are covering it up?


420 posted on 12/08/2005 4:28:56 PM PST by JeffAtlanta
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