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What Next for Conservatives (Creationism and spending are destroying the Republican Party)
townhall.com ^ | 11/17/2005 | George Will

Posted on 12/01/2005 10:55:04 AM PST by curiosity

Edited on 12/01/2005 11:11:54 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

The storm-tossed and rudderless Republican Party should particularly ponder the vote last week in Dover, Pa., where all eight members of the school board seeking re-election were defeated. This expressed the community's wholesome exasperation with the board's campaign to insinuate religion, in the guise of "intelligent design'' theory, into high school biology classes, beginning with a required proclamation that evolution "is not a fact.''


(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: conservatism; creationism; crevolist; evolution; federalspending; georgewill; gop; intelligentdesign
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To: jennyp

Interesting. Thanks for the info.


261 posted on 12/02/2005 8:13:33 AM PST by rwfromkansas (http://www.xanga.com/rwfromkansas)
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To: Mamzelle
The GOP is not going to be "embarrassed" enough to throw away a huge constituency just because some unreliables squawk.

More importantly, they're not going to be embarrassed at the polls because, contrary to the desires of some of the squawkers here, they aren't dumb enough to make pushing ID an issue come election time. Why? Because it doesn't play in Peoria. Just ask Santorum.

Complain all you like, but if it ever becomes a real, live issue in a major campaign, that "huge constituency" is not going to be nearly huge enough - in fact, they'll take on the role of ball-and-chain tout suite.

262 posted on 12/02/2005 8:48:20 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow (Sneering condescension.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Well, of course they're not going to push ID at election time. Did you think they would, or did you hope as much? There isn't much pushing of it as a political issue at all--except from those evos shaking and shivering at losing some status, or grant money--

Or, maybe their little bully-ing pulpit. I remember my early ed with evo (middle school) when the growing human embryo was sited as evidence of the Truth of evo. Gills, like a mudfish! Amphibian vestiges! Resemblence to a primate! I dutifully hid my snorts. What does looking like something have to do with anything? What kind of evidence was that? I can draw a fish, but it won't swim. This was the same class that had the artist's rendering of the monkey (with a tail) progressing upward, through the Neandertal, to a guy in a suit who looked a lot like George Will.

Later, there was a real embryology class that didn't give a flip about the theory of evo--it was just straightforward, because the students needed to know about embryos rather than the ideology of the teacher. At once the irrelevance of the previous evo-obsessed teacher became clear. That embryo folded in half in development, folded inside itself. What would become one organ emerged and gravitated to its proper place--another crossed it's path. And the most amazing thing about organisms--it formed this communication system of chemicals, of hormones that told each organ how to grow and behave. Of all the marvels of life, this system of organs talking to one another, working together, is the most remarkable of all. All this, from a genetic program. It happens to every other fertilized egg--succeeds half the time. A dance of life.

Evolution was not discussed. People were too busy learning about life.

263 posted on 12/02/2005 9:03:18 AM PST by Mamzelle (evoelitist#4--Hey, if you wanna be the Evangelical GED Party--!)
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To: PatrickHenry
[ Thanks. A worthy article. George Will is important. As is Charles Krauthammer, and other prominent republicans who are horrified at what creationism/ID can do to destroy our current electoral success. Religion belongs in church, not in science class or in national political campaigns. ]

Karl Marx would agree with you(them).. as would Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and the entire American Democrat party..

Pat; What was your political bent again?..

264 posted on 12/02/2005 9:10:00 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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To: RogueIsland

whether they kill us or not, i'm sure they'll make us pay for their education with our tax dollars.

you don't need robot zombies - once the idea of eternal accountability to the Creator is removed from the human thought process - anything goes. islamofascists are pikers compared with the secularists of the 20th century when it comes to killing those who disagree with them.


265 posted on 12/02/2005 9:21:02 AM PST by Snowbelt Man (ideas have consequences)
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To: Mamzelle
Well, of course they're not going to push ID at election time.

Well, why not? Isn't that what their "huge constituency" wants?

You don't have to say it - it's tolerably obvious to everyone, I'm sure, that even you understand it's not quite so immense a constituency as to be able to go it alone. Well, welcome to Politics 101 - that means compromise, somewhere, somehow, so that you can get at least some of what you want, rather than none of what you want. Promoting ID is a loser, so I recommend we toss it overboard.

Did you think they would, or did you hope as much?

Did I hope as much? Considering your performance here, you don't have the bona fides to question anyone else's conservatism. I'm here - we are here - to prevent that from happening, by preventing well-meaning but shortsighted conservatives from strapping this particular boat anchor around their necks.

Be serious for a moment. If I tell you that pouring gas on yourself and then playing with matches is a bad idea, that doesn't mean I'm hoping you'll do it. Instead, it means that your friend, who takes the longer view, is telling you it's a bad idea and you shouldn't do it. Why? Because I think it's a bad idea, and you shouldn't do it. Now, whether or not you choose to follow that advice is up to you, but please don't come whining to me when you go up in flames.

266 posted on 12/02/2005 9:21:02 AM PST by Senator Bedfellow (Sneering condescension.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow
Since we are making heartfelt suggestions to the greater good of conservatism--let me add to them the suggestion that your gang of "do gooders" stop actively alienating potential allies, or even the usefully indifferent to this small issue. You don't win over a jury by insulting eleven out of twelve, and then crying to the judge. That's also somewhere in politics 101--maybe?

I think the evos cannot contain their frustration when they are out of the classroom and cannot intimidate the student with the threat of ridicule or poor grades--they're so used to the bully-ing pulpit that any expression of doubt provokes behavior of adolescent insecurity. Not the attitude of winners.

The theory of evolution is an excellent paradigm, but can also be a stumbling block to the study of life. I gave you one example of class time devoted to Evo-devotionals that might have been better used sticking to facts--this is the way evo was taught many years ago, a shallow and nonsensical dogma, and most of it has been since debunked. Which might be OK, except the evos never notice that what was not true then, might also not be true now.

A lot of biology would be better taught with evolution used as a model, rather than the dogma it is. Then, when the doubters come, the scientist might be better able to maintain his decorum.

267 posted on 12/02/2005 9:48:41 AM PST by Mamzelle (evosnob#4--Hey, if you wanna be the Evangelical GED Party--!)
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To: Mamzelle
There 'tarians who want to cut the conservative religious off the GOP, very old story--and there are lots of Democrats who'd love to do the same thing. The 'tarians just can't get over their personal distaste against ther eligious...(irrational--they tolerate druggies quite handily, why not a Baptist?). "Tarians like low taxation, but their cultural familiars are urban liberals. Jazz bars and lattes, not sixpacks and Nascar. The Democrats just want the GOP to lose.

On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of conservatism.'
~Barry Goldwater 1981

268 posted on 12/02/2005 10:00:19 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Snowbelt Man
once the idea of eternal accountability to the Creator is removed from the human thought process - anything goes

Of course, the idea of "eternal accountability to the Creator" didn't seem to stop some very self-righteous Spaniards from torturing, sexually mutilating, and killing defenseless men and women in order to coax "confessions" of heresy from them.

269 posted on 12/02/2005 10:01:41 AM PST by RogueIsland
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To: Liberal Classic

Well, that's an interesting quote from a famous libertarian. I guess it just stands there, unless you want to explain how one quote has anything to do with the other. Do you mean to suggest that you have no intention of making any compromises with the religious?


270 posted on 12/02/2005 10:10:55 AM PST by Mamzelle (evosnob#4--Hey, if you wanna be the Evangelical GED Party--!)
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To: Mamzelle
Well, that's an interesting quote from a famous libertarian.

LOL. Without Barry Goldwater, the Republican Party would be mired in perpetual defeat and irrelevancy. Just about all of modern conservative thinking owes its origins to Goldwater. Before him, conservatism was just a formless lump of do-nothingism.

271 posted on 12/02/2005 10:15:22 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
I prefer Reagan, who actually won. But--whatever your point is, I suppose you made it.
272 posted on 12/02/2005 10:20:46 AM PST by Mamzelle (evosnob#4--Hey, if you wanna be the Evangelical GED Party--!)
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To: Mamzelle
I would think my purpose would be clear. I am responding to smears such as this:

I question whether they were ever on the conservative side to begin with--or are part of the 'tarians who are wild with distaste that they might have to eat at the same table as Conservative Christians.

273 posted on 12/02/2005 10:24:10 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Liberal Classic
I happened to like that line...let's make it three.

I question whether they were ever on the conservative side to begin with--or are part of the 'tarians who are wild with distaste that they might have to eat at the same table as Conservative Christians.

274 posted on 12/02/2005 10:28:30 AM PST by Mamzelle (evosnob#4--Hey, if you wanna be the Evangelical GED Party--!)
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To: Mamzelle

Reagan would likely have gone nowhere without Goldwater. Reagan was first noticed for a speech he gave in Goldwater's campaign.


275 posted on 12/02/2005 10:28:43 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Mamzelle

This is scurrilous insult. You ought to be ashamed of posting it.


276 posted on 12/02/2005 10:30:02 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Liberal Classic

You're tempting me to make it four...


277 posted on 12/02/2005 10:31:07 AM PST by Mamzelle (evosnob#4--Hey, if you wanna be the Evangelical GED Party--!)
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To: js1138

Yes, it's terrible that Hillary brags about being a Goldwater Girl.


278 posted on 12/02/2005 10:32:27 AM PST by Mamzelle (evosnob#4--Hey, if you wanna be the Evangelical GED Party--!)
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To: Mamzelle

In all seriousness, you are insulting a great many people that you have no busiess smearing. If you had any shame, you would offer an apology.


279 posted on 12/02/2005 10:32:52 AM PST by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

Festival of Hankies placemarker


280 posted on 12/02/2005 10:35:38 AM PST by longshadow
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