Alarming Export: Engineers

EE Times ^ | 11/14/2005 | David Lammers

[Myrddin]

Apparently the new innovations in this country will be more laws, and new and exciting forms litigation (also known as private-sector-based income redistribution).

My son was intent on pursing a degree in astrophysics. He was doing fine in his classes, but was having trouble covering his living expenses slinging burgers at In and Out. A hot little honey he was dating suggested getting a real estate sales license on a whim. He did. That was over two years ago. He just got his real estate broker's license yesterday. He has been running an office in San Diego with over 100 closings each year. He is 22 and intent on finishing his business degree in June. The income from his real estate business will slap down the student loans pretty rapidly. The LSAT is next on his target list.

[indthkr]

"The LSAT is next on his target list."

That's where everybody is headed.

[Nam Vet]

Exactly! Engineers often make on average, make less than blue collar machinists.

That's bull, with all due respect. I owned a tool & die shop for 20 years and tool& die makers make the same or less than they did 15+ years ago. When all of our manufacturing jobs were running out of the country in the 80s, everyone scoffed at us. We, "weren't keeping up with technology ...... too greedy .... etc". Needless to say, I can't even get a job in manufacturing management because I can't speak spanish!

Now, to all who say, "Learn to speak spanish", ..... I say bull! This is America (or used to be). I learned my trade starting in 1959 at age 13 part time. After coming up from the bottom but with only 2 years of college, I am no longer needed. If you think the computer part of engineering is heading downward, we in manufacturing of the basic products a country needs to function have a 20+ year head start at the losses you are experiencing.

When knowledge and experience are lost, it takes decades to recover. If I remember correctly, NO rare earth magnets are manufactured in the USA now. The last production machines were sold to China in the last year or two.

Nam Vet

[Thunder90]

Russia and the Former USSR are also generating a lot of top level engineering students.

[Myrddin]

BTW, my son speaks fluent Spanish. The real estate office he has been running for the last 2 years is owned by a naturalized U.S. citizen from Mexico City. Over 95% of his clients are Spanish speaking. He became fluent in Spanish when he realized that job opportunities were passing him by as an English speaking monoglot.

[mym]

==Many learn, but some never interact enough with American students (or other english speakers) to develop functional english skills. 800 verbals, indeed.==

GRE Verbal is just a bunch of rules. It has nothing to do with real life.

When applying to grad school speaking skill is not tested. GRE, TOEFL only check writing, reading and listening skills.

[mr_hammer]

the answer is obvious.

[mr_hammer]

It really leaves you scratching your head, doesn't it. I can't understand how we can sit by and watch the real wealth creation engine leave our shores only to be replaced by the wealth redistribution engine.

Makes absolutely no sense, unless you seek to actually weaken the USA.

[indthkr]

"Russia and the Former USSR are also generating a lot of top level engineering students."

In my experience, they generate a lot of top level Scientists, but maybe that has changed.

[GarySpFc]

American engineering is dead, and the attendant innovation that disginguished it, because the major employers of such people want it cheap and are getting it. And that's fine until it comes time to develop the next generation of smart weapons. Somehow I don't expect the Chinese or the Indians to supply us with that expertise.

The new Boeing 787 & 747 Advanced are being developed at Boeing's Design Center in Moscow. Russian engineers with Ph D's make about $1,500 per month, and do great work. How they can live on that kind of income in the third most expensive city in the world is beyond me.

My dad was determined to make an electrical engineer out of me, but I rebelled with lousy grades, and ended up going into business. I've been a multiple lines insurance agent for 36 years now, and plan on working at least until I'm 70.

[GarySpFc]

Russia and the Former USSR are also generating a lot of top level engineering students.

I'm married to a Russian lady, and we maintain a second home in Volgograd (Stalingrad.) We have lots of Russian friends, and it amazes me how many are engineers. I find the women seem to dominate the field, but the men hold the higher positions.

[guitfiddlist]

It really leaves you scratching your head, doesn't it. I can't understand how we can sit by and watch the real wealth creation engine leave our shores only to be replaced by the wealth redistribution engine.

Makes absolutely no sense, unless you seek to actually weaken the USA.

The answer is worse than that. Nobody really cares any more. They're all busy gettin' "their's".

[citizen]

I bet the skids are greased both ways for these minorities by our benevalent government.

I imagine these aren't bad folks at all but how about giving preference to the home grown students first?

[citizen]

The new Boeing 787 & 747 Advanced are being developed at Boeing's Design Center in Moscow.

I bet the security there against industrial espionage is impossible to crack.

/ sacrasm

The fools.

[mr_hammer]

Sadly, I believe you are correct.

[mym]

==We have lots of Russian friends, and it amazes me how many are engineers.==

Soviet education was highly accented on egineering. USSR graduated engineers 3 times more than humanitarians or economists.
Now it's a problem since Russia need more good economists and managers.

[jb6]

Half the problem is American students dont want to be engineers "its to hard and the payoff is too low"

And that's the reality of it and I don't blame them one bit. I spent 3 years working on my second, IT degree. Three years of sitting in computer labs till the sun came up. Three years of breaking by neck reading manuals that would put any insomiac into a coma. And for what? So I can watch half the jobs off shore? So that salaries will fall? So that I have spent 1 of the last 3.5 years unemployed? No thanks. Next month, with my MBA in hand I'll show US IT the middle finger and start a job that has real stability, growth, bonuses, etc.

[jb6]

In my ungrad IT course (1998-2001), 1/3rd were Chinese, 1/4th were Indians and the remaining 5/12 were everyone else.

[Gvl_M3]

I am a Mechanical Engineer, for 11 years now.

I look around and it almost feels like engineering is the new "blue collar" job. We are split up by discipline, given things to engineer, and sometimes told good job.

Maybe it is because I am burned out (many of my friends that I graduated with are as well), but sometimes I'd rather take a 10% pay cut and work on cars, or do construction. All the b.s. that we have to put up with from mgt, etc. just takes all the fun out of it.

Actually, I am considering getting into insurance, or maybe even real estate. Too much easy money out there without the headaches.

Also, look at the people who have been engineers for their entire career. What houses do they live in, what cars do they drive, etc. The starting pay is good, but then it is 3% a year for 30 years.

[indthkr]

"The answer is worse than that. Nobody really cares any more."

Sad but true. In addition to the lack of interest amongst college-age kids, there are a lot of people still in "the game" who are working their way out as fast as they can, or are able. There are a few around that still care, but in some cases it's coming down to basic survival.