There Is No God

National Public Radio ^ | 11/21/05 | Penn Jillette

[machman]

Morning Edition, November 21, 2005 ·

I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond Atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?

So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The Atheism part is easy.

But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."

Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.

Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.

Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.

Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.

Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.

[magellan]

Just because you say "Atheism is an act of faith" does not make it so.

Okay, look at Jillete's explaination. He said atheists start with nothing, and search for proof God exists, and when they can't find it, conclude He does not exist. Fine, but one cannot prove God exists. Religion is by its nature, an act of faith. So Jillete's explaination of the atheist's argument is false. This is the same thing I say.

So my argument to the atheist, if proof is required to prove the creation of the universe by supernatural means, then proof is required to prove the creation (not existence, creation) of the universe by natural means. Nobody can prove either. That is the mystery of man's existence.

Note Jillete says "I believe that there is no God." Not "I know there is not God."

Then he says "But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith ...

Jillete is one of the few intellectually honest non-believers. Maybe that is why he chooses not to call his non-belief atheism.

You mention C.S. Lewis. Remember, his realization that Jesus was real was a result of trying to prove Jesus was not real.

[jwalsh07]

They broke Gods commandment. They were guilty of murder.

Now your point is what? That there are men who corrupt the teachings of God for their own self aggrandizement? Breaking news?

[TASMANIANRED]

There are many many that are not awake to the knowledge of being a Child of God.

Not being awake to it doesn't obviate it as a condition of being human.

I am not a traditional Christian anymore.

I have a deep faith in God both from my teaching but also because of the experiences in life and from the fact that the older I get and the more deeply that I understand the complexity of medicine I am filled with growing awe.

My awe doesn't diminish because the complexity is explained.

[Bishop_Malachi]

Balrog666 said "Perhaps we should pursue this line of thought for the edification of all the thread readers.

How does the absolute moral teaching of "not raping babies" guide your everyday life?
How many times a day does "not raping babies" influence your personal moral decisions?"

I'm not sure what you're driving at here. His point seems obvious. That there are absolute moral standards. This applies to raping, stealing, murdering, whatever. Absolute moral standards should affect everyone's behaviour everyday. Whether they do or not is beside the point.

I hope that you haven't stooped to making a pointless, personal attack, i.e. implying that he personally struggles with the temptation to rape people everyday.

[narby]

The most outstanding people I have ever been privileged to deal with were Christians.

And I have known many fine Christians as well. But these three particular people have no shame. They know they are bad people, but are completely unconcerned with how others see them. I believe the "forgiveness" philosophy of Christianity enables them to be this way.

Christian philosphy I believe can act as an enabler for evil people.

[js1138]

They broke Gods commandment. They were guilty of murder.

And people who burn witches? Are they breaking any commandments?

[azhenfud]

Right. His denial makes the Master no less.

[unlearner]

"Quoting the Bible to prove God is like quoting the Vedas to prove Hinduism"

You jumped to your conclusion too quickly. I drew an analogy and showed that the idea represented by the analogy is consistent with the sayings of Jesus.

I demonstrated that three options about God are inadequate. My statement was not intended to prove God's existence, just that the arbitrary limit of three theological positions is untenable.

I believe in a rational faith. But there are areas in which faith requires us to admit we do not know everything. The same can be said of science or any other approach to knowledge.

"we DO know some of the details of that plan are what we'd consider evil were it not by the hand of God."

God is real. Because Jesus went to the Father, you cannot see Him. Because Jesus went to the Father, I do see Him.

I see Him because I am among those chosen (not for any merit on my part, but by God's grace and mercy). You do not see Him because you are part of the world system that hates God. It would not help you to see Him in your current frame of thinking. You would hate Him all the more if you saw Him.

I already have sufficient evidence of the existence of God. I know He is real because He lives in me.

Proving His existence to you is futile. Doing so would only serve to exacerbate your hatred for what you do not know.

Fools mock what they do not understand. You will not know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.

[jwalsh07]

Murder is murder. God commands, thoud shall not murder. You're a relatively smart guy, which part of that are you having trouble with?

[TN4Liberty]

I'm sorry you've had that experience. Most Christians I know are inspired to be better people, not worse. Hopefully you will find more of those as you go along, and add them to your dataset.

Certainly, there are "bad actors" in every group including the conservatives, founding fathers, the military, even Free Republic. Be open to seeing the whole forest instead of a few bad trees and maybe you will see something differently in time.

Take care.

[js1138]

I'm having trouble with the part where God orders killing.

[jwalsh07]

Don't waste your time with that scum. It has made disgusting comments about my mother on another thread a while back. I don't hit the abuse button as a rule so I didn't then but I did offer to meet him anytime, any place so that he could repeat his invective. Like all internet "heroes" he demurred. What was even more telling was the failure of his pals to hold him to an even mimimum standard of discourse.

His personal attacks on me I just laugh off, it's all it has to offer.

[TASMANIANRED]

Allow me to take a shot at this.

The twin religions of Judaism and Christianity along the the love of logic and reason that the GraecoRoman civilizations brought with them built Western Civilization.

At all times and in all places there have been Christians that have been ignorant asses. Always was, always will be.

Respect for individuals and the faith in the ability of humans to elevate themselves , along with individual responsibility built Europe and the United States.

Scientology has built nothing.

Hinduism and Buddhism and Confusion-ism have built other cultures. I cannot say anything about them being wrong.

All the worlds valid religions have a common purpose. To teach a right way to live. The measure of " is this valid" is seen in the cultures that embrace them.

Do Buddhism,Shintoism, Hinduism help or hinder the lives of people?
What are the works of the religion? Do they believe in the equality of all people. To they value life intrinsically, do they hold individuals accountable for their own behavior?
Do they create cultures that although different would be peaceable law abiding societies.

You can make contracts between people that all have the same basic values.

Islam as it has been practiced through out history with a few exceptions has brought little besides spilled blood.

For one thing it is a syncratic religion. It is little parts of Judaism with little parts of Christianity, a little bit of ginn mixed up in the mind of someone I consider to be schizophrenic.

The works of Islam is child rape, bestiality, bloody jihad, ignorance, poverty, honor killings and breaking contracts with infidels. It is a format to create mental illness.

How do I know this. In 1979 I read the Iotola Khomeini's book. I read the justifications for sex with ducks and hairless boys.

Islam had a flowering during the Middle/Dark Ages but it was through assimilation of cultures they conquered. Not because of new knowledge. It was easy to flower because the standards of the time were so low.

It was their high point and they have not moved beyond it.

Personally I do not consider Islam Valid...

Hinduism has built a splendid culture. But is it a just culture. Until the British put an end to it. Child brides were burned on pyres with old men.

Their non violence towards rats and cows allows them to overlook the starving of children of the under caste.

In Hindu culture if you were born lower caste you were unclean in this incarnation no matter what you did.

Hinduism has built a marvelous and beautiful culture . But by my personal measure it is wrong. No equality, less accountability, no elevation of the overall human good.

Mormonism is a Christian off shoot. Doesn't bear discussion as a separate religion.

IMHO..

And this coming from someone who is not a traditional Christian. My personal belief is "There are many Chambers"

[Central Scrutiniser]

Public dime?

Come on, stretching it a bit?

Yeah, its NPR, but they also let people with all kinds of beliefs on that station.

Weak attempt by you.

[jwalsh07]

I'm having trouble with the part where God orders killing

Lot's of people do. Old Testament justice is not for the timid or the weak of faith. But God's commandments are not for God, they are for us. I see no reason to go further than that, do you?

[Central Scrutiniser]

Just another Marxist who thinks that government has all the answers.

Quite the opposite, read up on Penn, he is a very vocal libertarian/conservative, and as far from a marxist as you could get. But labeling someone something is easy when you don't know the background.

[jwalsh07]

Your reply is weak since the "public dime" comment was incidental. After all, my understanding of the US Constitution allows for most speech in the public square including religious and anti religious. The ACLU folks and their fellow "separation of church and state" fellow travelers are the folks who have baby elephants at the mere mention or relgion or a Deity on the public dime.

So perhaps you'd care to address the main thrust of the post rather than engaging on a peripheral issue? That being that bible waving religious people have as much right to wave their bibles as this guy has waving his non deism.

[Andonius_99]

that is one of the best Social D songs...a lot of people refuse to believe that these guys might actually have a conscience, soul and belief in God...anyway, thanks for posting this!

[Central Scrutiniser]

If it was incidental, why did you try to use it as part of your argument?

Maybe you had such a small case to begin with?

Penn is an athiest, good for him! Good for America that we allow it! He can speak out about the bible wavers, and the bible wavers can speak out about him! Hooray!

Unless you want a state religion?

BTW, read up on Penn, he is no friend of the left or the ACLU folks or "fellow travelers"

[nicmarlo]

Is one of these it?

Proverbs 14:12

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Isaiah 55: 8

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.