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Look, you can find polls that back your miopic view if you like, but the fact is that Bush's overall approvals have tanked. I'm not sure what the exact focus was for the 27% poll I mentioned, but it was valid and just because you don't want to believe it, there are many out there who will. Besides, if the 27% percent poll was as bogus as you state, then our side should be prepared to focus on it and reveal it to be just what you stated, but they don't. Your take on it is nice, but that doesn't mean a hill of beans when we're talking about public opinion. You're already on our side. You don't need to be won over. You're not in danger of having your negative views of Bush reinforced.

If you want to quote 45 and 72% polls fine. If you want to believe that 72% of the public is on our side, be my guest. I'll disregard you and work with others who want to improve our situation.

We're gettting our asses handed to us non-stop on weekend talking head shows, and your take on my addressing that is to attack based on free-speech. LMAO, and you want to be taken serious?

You cannot win the debate by allowing the left to score points unchallenged. That is exactly what is taking place on the talking head shows. Employing attack tactics and misdirecting the focus to some poll you don't agree with is pointless. The fact is that leftists come on these shows with talking points at the tip of their tongues, and the folks that represent our side have mouths full of mush when it's time to respond. Do you disagree with this description. If so, just say so. You'll be in the vast minority here who think that, but hey, you're entitled.

But that's right, just ignore the facts and buy hook line and sinker the Dinosaur Media directed spin lie. What is it going to take for the Stone Cold "Conservatives" to wake up to the fact that the Dinosaur Media is NOT your friends and buying into it's spin lies is the equivalent of listening to Radio Berlin in 1943 and expecting to hear "news".

I can't understand a person that recognizes what's going on, then completely misses the connection that we need to counter what takes place on these shows. And what is the best way to counter? Why to place people on the shows that can coherently express hard cold facts that shoot down the left's lies, right at the moment they make them. Why is that such a foreign concept to you?

I can't understand a person that recognizes what's going on, then completely misses the connection that we need to counter what takes place on these shows

Actually NO. Sorry but you all keep empowering the Sunday shows with far more influence and power then they actually have. Ever looking at the RATINGS?

Look, you can find polls that back your miopic view if you like, but the fact is that Bush's overall approvals have tanked. I'm not sure what the exact focus was for the 27% poll

No, I am not the myopic one. I actually know what I am talking about as opposed to "Conservatives" who mindlessly repeat the Dinosaur Media's spin lies. You all really really really need to learn Patton's Dictum "

Never Take Council of Your Fears"

I completely nuked your nuts "27% Bush Approval" line but instead of admitting MAYBE you don't know the facts, you cling to your lecture everyone about how to do things dogma. Actually, the 27% line SHOWS you do not know anything and MIGHT need to actually listen a bit to people WHO DO.

What do you Whine all the Time "Conservatives" think you accomplish when you spend 100% of your time echoing the DNC's lies? Panicking down the PR line THEY prepared for the Chicken Little is EXACTLY what they WANT you to do.I have given you both the facts. You keep screaming your opinions back at me. Sorry but REALITY and YOUR FEELINGS are two completely different things. You base EVERYTHING on polls that I demonstrated several posts backs are complete manipulated frauds. Did either of you even BOTHER TO LISTEN?

It would appear not. Instead you keep screaming the same opinions that I have all ready completely nuked multiple times. Sorry but REALITY does NOT work the way your feelings tell you it should. You keep assigning way more influence and power to the Dinosaurs then they actually have. Rush Limbaugh in ONE radio program reaches 2-3 times as many people as ALL the Sunday shows combined. It is NOT 1971, Iraq is NOT Vietnam and the world does NOT revolve around the Dinosaur Media. I know you don't want to deal with it but the world HAS changed since your glory days.

I hate talking about polls....but I found one I heard about yesterday interesting...

It said that 77% of the MEDIA believes the War in Iraq is a mistake...and is going very bad.

THAT is the story right there....when the information about the war...and the people that interview people about the war, are so negative...it is darned near impossible to expect anything POSITIVE to be gleaned from those newscasts, right??

"I'm not sure what the exact focus was for the 27% poll I mentioned, but it was valid..."

You don't know what the poll was about but you know it was valid? How do you know that? In fact, I've seen a great number of reasons to cast doubt on the validity of most opinion polls out there. In the past several months I've seen bias in the "set up" wording for polls, in the questions themselves, and -- given the vitriol against Bush among many pollsters themselves -- it would not surprise me one bit if the deck was being intentionally stacked.

I'm a social scientist myself and I would never allow a grad student to engage in some of the polling tactics I've seen of late.

I'm not saying all is rosy for Bush, but I'll bet that if the 2004 election were held next week, Bush would beat Kerry again.

Nope. Both of you have had your credibility completely nuked today. You claimed Bush's job approval was down to 27%. It was in one of your very first posts. I asked you to prove it by providing a link to the poll. You had to admit you had no link to back up your claim. I then presented you with the data that showed even the correct claims of Bush's JA in the upper 30% range bogus since they were based on polls that had switched to anyone over 18 polling this summer in place of Likely Voters and had reweighted their data sample to reduce Republican polled and significantly increase the Democrat and "Independents" sample. That is information anyone who actually read the poll rather then just the head line would know.

You still refused to admit your argument was based on error. Once you admitted that it was clear everything you were basing your argument on was your own feelings. Your credibility on this thread is GONE. Sorry you are nuked. Trying to spin your way out of it by going into rabid attack mode does NOT help you. You are wrong. You are prove wrong. Every continuing post shows just how wrong you are.

Give you another bit of data that shows you are not a serious commentators. "Millions, if not tens of millions" of US Citizens watch these Sunday shows". Don't they just wish. NOPE. The Sunday shows draw NO WHERE near those sort of ratings. The entire Nightly News audience(their highest market shares) for all the broadcast networks combined is under 25,000,000. The Sunday shows do not even draw 1/3 of that.

So perhaps less angst and hand wringing in the future and more factual accuracy from you two. The Sunday thread is a serious thread for thoughtful commentary, not the usual Freeper bluster and chest pounding. If you want to be taken seriously here, you better have the facts cause you ARE going to be challenged to back up your claims.