Posted on 11/10/2005 5:53:53 AM PST by NYer
The first openly gay Episcopal bishop insisted Wednesday he was not encouraging Roman Catholics to leave their church when he criticized its view of homosexuals during a recent speech in London.
New Hampshire Bishop V. Gene Robinson, at a service Friday commemorating the 10th anniversary of Changing Attitude, a British group which advocates full inclusion of gays in the Anglican faith community, noted during his talk that many Catholics in his home state were becoming Episcopalian.
"Pope Ratzinger may be the best thing that ever happened to the Episcopal Church," Robinson said, referring to former Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who is now Pope Benedict XVI. But Robinson said in a phone interview Wednesday from New Hampshire that he was recounting what a Catholic woman told him about why she was joining the Protestant denomination -- not expressing his own opinion. He said the woman was disappointed that the successor to Pope John Paul II would probably not make any significant changes in Catholic teaching.
Robinson said he had commented on Catholic issues in response to a question from a gay Catholic struggling with his place in his church. Catholic teaching considers gay sex "intrinsically disordered."
Robinson said he told the man that it was an "act of violence against gay folk" that the Vatican was considering instructing its seminaries to bar homosexuals and viewed it as an attempt by Catholic leaders to blame gays for the clergy sex abuse crisis. But Robinson said he told the young man that he should live "such that the light of Christ so shone through him that no one in his church could doubt his full membership in the body of Christ."
"I was not encouraging this young Roman Catholic man to be confrontative in any way," Robinson said.
Robinson's 2003 consecration sparked a crisis within world Anglicanism; the majority of Anglicans overseas believe gay relationships violate Scripture. It also has created tensions between the 77-million-member Anglican Communion and other denominations, including the Catholic Church. The Episcopal Church is the communion's U.S. branch.
It is wrong! Our Province: THE ANGLICAN PROVINCE OF CHRIST THE KING, broke away from the "piscopos" in 1979. Our growth has been eventful. Too many parishes and not enough priests. Just today the news has 4 parishes in Ohio, leaving the "piscopos".
I saw that too, and it is great news. But I am still confused. When Robinson was first ordained as a Bishop, those complaining were thinking of bringing it to Archbishop Rowan Williams, who I understood to be the head of the Anglican Church. If "piscopos" are not Anglicans, then why would Williams have anything to do with it?
You should contact an Anglican Priest for your answer. Not a "piscopo" priest. Much has occurred this year in the Anglican Communion (world wide). Parishes are leaving the "piscopos" here in the USofA and are getting into fights over property ownership. "Piscopos" think they own everything! Our Province has (thank God) a fund that helps parishes buy new churches, if needed.
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Don't let it bother you. Robinson is a pretender without valid orders. He's playing make-believe bishop.
Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury is the head of the Anglican Communion. However he is first among equals, not the Anglican pope. The Episcopal Church (ECUSA) is the US member of the Anglican Communion. Each nation has a member church in communion with the mother church, the Church of England, and it is they that are members of The Anglican Communion. IE. The Church of England, The Anglican Church in Canada, The Anglican Church of Nigeria, ECUSA, etc.
The Province of Christ the King, The Anglican Catholic Church, The Anglican Church in America are breakaways from ECUSA and while they are traditional and orthodox in their faith and practice and they are Anglican, they are not members of the official Anglican Communion. THe Anglican Communion does not recognize them.
BTW...I am no longer a member of the "official" Anglican Communion as I left ECUSA about 20 years ago for the ACA. I had children to raise and the diocese where we were living was way too liberal. We fought the good fight, but our children were too important to us and quite frankly we got tired of fighting alone. It's funny how Gene Robinson was the last straw for so many people, we saw this coming years ago, but no-one would listen.
I am Anglican, born and raised in ECUSA, but now in the Continuing Church as I watch and wait and PRAY. My dear friends who are still in ECUSA carrying on the fight are Anglican as well. Who's real? I guess it depends on who's defining real.
I am cradle Episcopalian. When my husband joined my church after we were married 25 years ago, I attended the confirmation classes with him. There were 16 members in his class, my husband was Presbyterian, but the majority about 3/4 of the class was Roman Catholic. They were either in mixed marriages seeking a happy medium or they were remarried after divorce.
The local ECUA parish, where I have friends, has 3 ex Roman Catholic converts on a vestry of 7. They are poorly cathecized in anything catholic, Roman or otherwise and are always pushing for the "innovations".
May I ask how long you have been in the APCK?
Since the breakaways seem to be much closer to the mother church in faith, could the Communion boot out the ECUSA? And, if that happened do you think the breakaways would unify somehow and become the new American member of the Communion? Is that an important or especially desirable thing?
A letter fron 2 Peter Chapter 2 describes Robinson to a tee:
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive opinions. They will even deny the Master who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Even so, many will follow their licentious ways, and because of these teachers the way of truth will be maligned.
3 And in their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. Their condemnation, pronounced against them long ago, has not been idle, and their destruction is not asleep. 4For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of deepest darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5and if he did not spare the ancient world, even though he saved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood on a world of the ungodly; 6and if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example of what is coming to the ungodly;
7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man greatly distressed by the licentiousness of the lawless 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by their lawless deeds that he saw and heard), 9then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment
10 —especially those who indulge their flesh in depraved lust, and who despise authority. Bold and willful, they are not afraid to slander the glorious ones, 11whereas angels, though greater in might and power, do not bring against them a slanderous judgment from the Lord. 12These people, however, are like irrational animals, mere creatures of instinct, born to be caught and killed. They slander what they do not understand, and when those creatures are destroyed, they also will be destroyed, 13suffering the penalty for doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their dissipation while they feast with you. 14They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children! 15They have left the straight road and have gone astray, following the road of Balaam son of Bosor, who loved the wages of doing wrong, 16but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. 17These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the deepest darkness has been reserved. 18For they speak bombastic nonsense, and with licentious desires of the flesh they entice people who have just escaped from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for people are slaves to whatever masters them. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment that was passed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, ‘The dog turns back to its own vomit,’ and, ‘The sow is washed only to wallow in the mud.’
The Church of England (CofE) and also the Anglican Church in Canada (ACinC) are both very liberal. As a traditional Anglican I have more in common with the Church in Nigeria and other parts of Africa than I have with ECUSA, The CofE or ACinC. The Africans, FarEast and South American bishops who are orthodox are thratening a split. ECUSA and Cnnada don't seem to care as they can then go forward with their agenda unopposed by any of those who would stand in their way. The person who has the problem is Rowan Williams. He is closer to the liberals in his beliefs on homosexuality, but he can't risk the Communion breaking up. He can only call meetings and try to keep all calm while he stands for nothing. At some point I think someone will run him over as he walks down the middle of the road...so to speak. I'm waiting and praying for all as I look to see who will be the driver of the errant vehicle. I don't think the Anglican Communion as it exists today will give ECUSA the boot, the CofE has deep divisions over the same issues withoin itself. If there is a split, I expect some of the Continuing Churches to align with the traditional churches such as Nigeria. I would love to have Bp.Akinola as the leader of my church. What a man of God and what a leader! Seriously, I don't know what the final fallout will be. I can only watch and pray.
My family have been Anglican for generations going back to England from before the American Revolution and this is very painful to me. It was difficult for me to leave ECUSA, but my children's spiritual welfare was more important than staying. I left 20 years ago and while I looked back for a while I have moved on. I view this as I would view a distant relative having problems. I'm not involved exactly, I'm sad for all concerned and I am watching to see what effect this could have on my own life. Time will tell.
What a smug SOB.
I doubt to whether he even believes in God. It was Vicki Gene Robinson that convinced me that the Episcopal Church had left me. And it was two great men, Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI that attracted me to the Roman Catholic Church.
As someone in another context said yesterday, can he whistle past the graveyard any LOUDER?
One thing I forgot to mention in the first post to you is how the ECUSA got it's name. The CofE established Anglican churches here when we were colonies. After the Revolutionary War, most of the priests had gone back to England as they were appointees of the crown. The Church in Scotland helped the churchmembers start a church. It was called the Episcopal Church because it was episcopal in structure. Episcopal meaning it had bishops. Later when there was peace between the former colonies and the mother country, ECUSA became the American branch of the Anglican Communion. Sorry I can't remember the year.
aangh. I missed that. That BA STARD.
Ungh! They're stealing the word PARTNER too! I HATE that.
You know, it's interesting that I've got to go through 9 months of education before I can become fully Catholic. This is unheard of to me. And what I've seen so far, it's seminary level education -- no talking down, no "because the pope said so". It's been high quality theology. I've been impressed. Also a little irritated because I don't want to have to work so hard.
But my point is, like the Marines, the Catholics won't just accept any joker off the street that wants to come on down. You have to want it and demonstrate a serious commitment to get through the process. I like that.
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