Posted on 11/07/2005 2:44:49 AM PST by Dane
French police made 395 arrests last night as riots intensified for the 11th consecutive night, with violence and fire engulfing towns from the North to the Mediterranean.
In the impoverished suburbs and satellite towns around Paris, where the unrest began on October 27, churches, schools and warehouses were set alight. At least 1,408 vehicles were destroyed, many more than on previous nights, and the random attacks have spread into the heart of the city.
In Grigny, south of the capital, a gang of around 200 youths are reported to have lured police into a housing estate before opening fire with hunting rifles. At least 30 officers were injured, two seriously with lead pellets in the legs and neck.
Riots broke out in beacons of disaffection across the country from Lille, on the border with Belgium, to Montpellier on the Mediterranean coast. In Toulouse, police used tear gas to disperse a mob. Cars were set alight on the streets of Nantes, Orleans, Rennes and Rouen, and youths in St Etienne forced passengers off a bus before burning it. Churches were set ablaze in northern Lens and southern Sete.
SNIP
In Strasbourg, youths stole a car and rammed it into a housing project, setting the vehicle and the building on fire. "We’ll stop when Sarkozy steps down," the defiant 17-year-old driver told an Associated Press reporter.
Police are calling for a night-time curfew in affected areas and some senior officers have demanded that troops are brought on to the streets.
Michel Gaudin, France's most senior police officer, said today: "We are witnessing a sort of shock wave that is spreading across the country."
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
If there's no reason to ever try, as prejudice or pride in French society simply will not let you in, what's he doing in France? Why not go where he can assimilate? Why not go where he can make a living? Why stand around complaining until things get so bad that violence erupts, then blame it on all the opportunities he wasn't handed on a silver platter?
My gut feeling on this is it's a combination of no-win policies in their own lives combined with mob mentality/hooliganism.
(Why is France still this way -- why hasn't the EU forced changes? I don't know, don't follow the minutiae of European culture.)
One could ask the identical question of American Blacks in the 1960s:
"If prejudice or pride in American society simply will not let you in, what are you doing in America?"
[Answer: 'I was born here, and have the identical right to be here and benefit from the society as the President of the Republic does.']
"Why not go where you can assimilate?"
[Answer: where would American blacks have gone to "assimilate"? Bigger answer: why should they have had to go anywhere?]
"Why stand around complaining until things get so bad that violence erupts, then blame it all on the opportunites he wasn't handed on a silver platter?"
Why, indeed, did those uppity blacks in America riot in the 1960s? Hmmmph. They should have accepted their lot and been happy with how good they had it.
"My gut feeling on this is it's a combination of no-win policies in their own lives combined with mob mentality/hooliganism."
Your gut feeling is partially correct. However, we can't know, because the government has made no effort at all to enable the hiring of these people, and to repress discrimination against them. How can you "assimilate" if you can't get a job?
"(Why is France still this way -- why hasn't the EU forced changes? I don't know, don't follow the minutiae of European culture.)"
The EU can't "force changes" like that. And besides, the rest of the EU's not any better. They're just not as tolerant of immigration period, and so have fewer immigrants than France does.
So you're saying they're justified in their behavior, plus insinuating that I'm racist.
Sure, blowing up the Rainbow Warrior, then pretending to punish the guy who did it. Also, in 1968, after they had let the "students" screw around for a few days, De Gaulle basically said "enough is enough", and then broke all their heads. Also, while France lost Algeria and Vietnam, what they did to try to hold them -- for many years- was rather nasty.
I'm not saying that France can prevail against a strong foe, like an actual army, but street violence, I think they can respond to in kind.
"So you're saying they're justified in their behavior, plus insinuating that I'm racist."
Neither of those things.
I am saying that the situation is comparable to the United States in the 1960s, and that the solution you suggested: that French Beurs emigrate from France because the rest of the French treat them very badly is akin to suggesting that black people should have emigrated from America in the 1960s because American whites treated them very badly.
I think that's a bad solution.
I think that what needs to happen in France is what happened in America: white people need to be forced to accept their co-citizens, by punishing them if they engage in acts of racism. American whites and business practices did not come around because of the goodness of their hearts, but because of the fear of lawsuits and loss of money.
None of this implies that you are a racist.
It does say that the suggestion that Beurs should leave France is poorly thought out. A country cannot expel its own natives, not rightly. And natives of a country should not be forced to leave because the majority won't accept them. The majority should be forced to accept them.
Of course, if the minority goes on a rampage, they should be forced back into line as well. The government's response in France has not been strong enough. But what is suggested by many here on FR is too strong by half.
Accept it as a given that Muslim French people cannot be, and will not be, expelled en masse from France. Accept it as a given that they will remain, and their numbers will increase over time. That's the reality, and it's that that has to be dealt with. It cannot be realistically solved by programs of ethnic cleansing, whether coercive (government action) or voluntary emigration, because nobody is going to do any of those things.
Thank god it's mostly Renaults burning...hell come to think of it that might actually be a public service...
Well, there are similarities but there are also profound differences. American blacks were brought here by and large against their will. From what I can tell that's not the case with Muslim immigrants in France. Also, American blacks believed in the same God, and attempts to coerce the culture "back to African roots" came later and weren't very successful (at least not as successful as I believe the perpetrators' agendas wished them to be). MLK asked for peace, tolerance and perseverance, from the wronged peoples as well as the perpetrators.
I wasn't suggesting that immigrants who find it difficult to become French should be "ethnically cleansed," just that individuals have more options in 2005 than others have had in the past.
I thought one of the main goals of the EU was to require its member countries adhere to open trade and standardized monetary/economic policies. I guess it really is as useless as it seems.
Anyone know the total number of automobiles torched in the last 13 days?
bump to read later
Agreed,plus if it has noyhing to do with Islam,or muslims why would the Imams have any impact at all,on a secular bunch of vandals?
The Europeans have no problems with ethnic cleansing,they have done it in cycles over the centuries.From religious cleansing in the 17th and 18th centuries to the "solution" in the 20th century,with an aside dish in Serbia.They will do it again,it's a question of when they will feel threatened enough and how much of a mess they make when they decide to act for their own preservation.
It would only take 1 car that belonged to an abortion doctor - 24/7 "Domestic Terrorism"
4700 BEFORE last night. If last nights number of 1170 is correct, then thats 5870 going into tonight.
I figured it was Condi Reich. What an absolute disgrace and disappointment she has become.
Sorry, should be this one.
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