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The H-1B swindle
http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/10/25/44OPreality_1.html ^

Posted on 10/29/2005 7:25:40 AM PDT by vrwc0915

It appears there is hard evidence to prove that employers are using the H-1B visa program to hire cheap labor; that is, to pay lower wages than the national average for programming jobs.

According to “The Bottom of the Pay Scale: Wages for H-1B Computer Programmers — F.Y. 2004,” a report by Programmers Guild board member John Miano, non-U.S. citizens working in the United States on an H-1B visa are paid “significantly less than their American counterparts.” How much less? “On average, applications for H-1B workers in computer occupations were for wages $13,000 less than Americans in the same occupation and state.”

Miano based his report on OES (Occupational Employment Statistics) data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics which estimates wages for the entire country by state and metropolitan area. The report’s H-1B wage data came from the U.S. Department of Labor’s H-1B disclosure Web site.

Miano went out of his way to be balanced, and whenever possible he gave the benefit of the doubt to the employer. For example, he used OES data from 2003 because this is the wage information that would have been available to the employers when filing an LCA (labor condition application).

Miano had some difficulty matching OES job codes with LCA job titles, which employers typically create. Where both the OES and the LCA listed a job as “programmer/analyst,” Miano took the conservative approach of assuming that the LCA was describing a programmer, a job title that typically earns a lower wage than a systems analyst.

Nonetheless, Miano’s report shows that wages paid to H-1B workers in computer programming occupations had a mean salary of $52,312, while the OES mean was $67,700; a difference of $15,388. The report also lists the OES median salary as $65,003, or $12,691 higher than the H-1B median.

When you look at computer job titles by state, California has one of the biggest differentials between OES salaries and H-1B salaries. The average salary for a programmer in California is $73,960, according to the OES. The average salary paid to an H-1B visa worker for the same job is $53,387; a difference of $20,573.

Here are some other interesting national wage comparisons: The mean salary of an H-1B computer scientist is $78,169, versus $90,146 according to the OES. For an H-1B network analyst, the mean salary is $55,358, versus the OES mean salary of $64,799. And for the title “system administrator,” there was a $17,478 difference in salary between the H-1B mean and the OES mean.

H-1B visa workers were also concentrated at the bottom end of the wage scale, with the majority of H-1B visa workers in the 10-24 percentile range. “That means the largest concentration of H-1B workers make less than [the] highest 75 percent of the U.S. wage earners,” the report notes.

While it would be difficult to prove that any one particular employer is hiring foreign workers to pay less, the statistics show us that, for whatever reason, this is exactly what is happening on a nationwide basis. Miano says lobbyists will admit that a small number of companies are abusing the H-1B program, but what he has found in this research is that almost everyone is abusing it.

“Abuse is by far more common than legitimate use,” he says.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: aliens; h1b; immigrantlist; immigration; obl; transnational; waronmiddleclass
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To: TopQuark
The constant calls for government intervention, terrible accusations of all employers, etc. --- all to keep inflated by shortage salaries that we, the rest of Americans paid for decades in higher product prices and lower stock prices.

First of all lets put things into perspective. Regardless of ones opinion on the merits of the visa program one can not deny that the visa's are in and of themselves a government intervention. After all if it were not for the government granting the visas and setting the quotas there would be no issue hence no whining. So the government is involved like it or not. Also, one can not deny that visa's change the supply and demand ratio. Hence the government is involved with the supply and demand of some professions in this country. To call it whining is interesting use of the term to me.

Regarding the stock prices I submit to you the real culprit is the mega million dollar salaries of the top executives at 95% of the companies. Paying an engineer 100,00 a year to work 60-70 hours a week is not what the problem is or ever was.

No company was forced to pay a java engineer anything. By your own statement saying it is ridiculous to pay someone what the market bears indicates that you favor government intervention to change the market. If so be honest about it - don't submit it falsely as a "shortage" say what it is. It is a way to lower the salaries of engineers in this country by means of government intervention. In actuality it was this whining to the government by the big corporations that resulted in the visas in the first place.

201 posted on 11/08/2005 4:51:20 AM PST by blueriver
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To: TopQuark
If you argue for better enforcement, I am with you 100%.

Yes I am arguing for enforcement. The way it is now there is no enforcement so it is abused. If there was better enforcement of the laws and the program was truly used for shortages I do not think anyone would have a problem with the visa program.

202 posted on 11/08/2005 4:56:38 AM PST by blueriver
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To: blueriver
. Regardless of ones opinion on the merits of the visa program one can not deny that the visa's are in and of themselves a government intervention.

No, by itself it is not. One has to complete the sentence: intervention into what?

Actually, form economic perspective, it is the citizenship that constitutes barrier to mobility of labor. The visa program lowers that barrier.

Now, don't read to much into the preceding statement: it is merely a statement of fact and not of my position on this. The citizenship is a barrier for a reason, and should stay that way in principle; exceptions are handled by programs such as H1-B.

203 posted on 11/08/2005 9:35:29 AM PST by TopQuark (1)
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To: TopQuark
No, by itself it is not. One has to complete the sentence: intervention into what?

Intervention into the supply and demand ratio and therefore the market conditions surrounding the pay scale of certain professions.

Actually, form economic perspective, it is the citizenship that constitutes barrier to mobility of labor. The visa program lowers that barrier.

Citizenship has never been a barrier to mobility of labor. A company is always free to move it's operations to another country and hire whatever labor is desired. It is absolutely ludicrous to say that a company is forced to stay in this country and be bounded by the existing labor pool. If there is a shortage and the workers exist in another country - I say move your operations out of the US. Why does our government need to change this countries immigration laws to satisfy corporations X's labor issues.

204 posted on 11/08/2005 9:53:40 AM PST by blueriver
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To: TopQuark
In the 1990s, when a kid with no college education could make $150,000/year just because he knew some recent version of Java, this reached the level of insanity.

They were paid 150k a year because of market demand, or perceived market demand. Either the dipshits that were paying them didn't understand market economics OR the market dictated their value based on limited supply.

205 posted on 11/08/2005 11:14:12 AM PST by RockyMtnMan
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To: TopQuark; GOP_1900AD; Black Jade; ALOHA RONNIE; Jeff Head; Travis McGee; Alamo-Girl; kattracks; ...
When I hired people, I certainly did not and never would circumvent the law.

Glad to hear that. But we only have your anonymous word on that.

Would you? Judging by how easily you accuse thousands of people, you probably would.

Ready doubts about the credibility of management which is in fact hiring lower paid replacements somehow means that I would do the same as they? That does not follow.

On the other hand, however, You're the one accusing people who want law enforcement...which you now admit ignorance of the lack thereof....of being "whiners," etc.

I further note that you have still not responded to the issue of national defense. How DO you feel about the security implications of hiring Chinese "brainpower"?

Perhaps you would be further interested to know the following:




Facing China’s Quiet Juggernaut


Early this year, Chinese Defense Minister Cao Gangchuan called on the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) to harness cutting-edge military technologies, to enhance strategic and basic research, and to make breakthroughs in key technologies in a bid to “leap forward in the armaments development drive.”

Comrade Cao also was announcing to the world that China’s economy had advanced sufficiently in technological sophistication to ensure that it could focus on 21st-century weaponry. We are now on notice, as Russian military officials have warned, that China’s ultimate objective is to achieve global military-economic dominance by 2050. This must be reflected in the current U.S. Quadrennial Defense Review.

China’s gross domestic product is expected to double between 2000 and 2010. The defense budget continues to increase annually by double-digit margins. In his new book, “The Emerging Chinese Advanced Technology Superstate,” Ernest Preeg has forecast that China will become “an advanced technology superstate: A fundamental restructuring of Chinese defense industry in 1997 to 1999 shifted control of defense enterprises from the military to the civilian government, and integrated their operations with commercial advanced technology enterprises ... The result has been a more rapid rate of military system modernization, particularly for the navy and defense electronic systems.”

This is the linchpin of China’s prospects for emerging as America’s “peer competitor” in high-tech warfare.

In the late 1990s, China revamped its military research and development program. The PLA is currently pursuing — by both the Sino-Russian multibillion-dollar arms pact and by incorporating other critical foreign technologies — systems of its own.

Besides modernizing its conventional armed forces, today’s China focuses on three military priorities:

• Aerospace.

• Nuclear weapons.

• “New-concept” weapons, such as laser, electromagnetic, plasma, climatic, genetic and biotechnological.

The central principle driving the modernization of national defense is reliance on science and technology to strengthen the armed forces.

The ultimate objective of this particular revolution in military affairs, say the Chinese, is to build a capacity to win the future “information war” — which can only be won by achieving space dominance. The core of ongoing Chinese military reforms thus consists of developing those specific symmetrical and asymmetrical systems designed to neutralize today’s U.S. technological superiority in the space-information continuum.

China already is striving to offset the military advantages of America’s existing aerospace systems, seeking especially to challenge the air dominance that the United States must continue to maintain over the Taiwan Strait if it wants to deter and, if need be, counter any major Chinese attack against Taiwan.

Chinese military thinkers have offered their notions of how to deal with Taiwan’s “independence elements.” Beijing is said to have earmarked an annual military budget of 500 billion yuan ($61.9 billion) to accelerate production of the required armaments. PLA leaders, who have pledged that they can capture Taiwan within seven days, appear bent on conducting an anti-carrier campaign against the United States if it comes to that. As Chinese President Hu Jintao has boasted, this war “will not obstruct the holding of the 2008 Olympic games.”

China foresees a time when it can push back American air power, first, farther away from its own coasts, and then even farther out from critical areas like the South China Sea. Russian officials concur with this assessment. They warn that a Chinese “Monroe doctrine” is quietly at work: “All of Asia belongs to the Chinese — and not only Asia.”

Since 2001, we have been challenged by the need to transform our forces to deal with a cunning, soulless, but essentially low-tech predator — the terrorist. Yet those other realms of warfare that occupied us prior to 9/11 — information, naval and above all, aerospace — still constitute the nucleus of the new revolution in military affairs. If we neglect the timely development of weaponry in these arenas, then China could catch America like a deer in the proverbial headlights, precisely where we caught them after the 1991 victory in Desert Storm.

History has taught all generations that maintaining technological superiority, not to mention a nation itself, requires a policy, persistence and (sadly) a price. But at least two recent U.S. technological initiatives, “Air-Land Battle” and “Star Wars,” have already helped smash the bloody concrete of the Berlin Wall.

The Quadrennial Defense Review is due next year. It must address the evolving Chinese military, economic and — lest we forget — totalitarian juggernaut.

Mary C. FitzGerald is a research fellow at the Hudson Institute, which is preparing a report on advanced technology and Chinese military power.


206 posted on 11/08/2005 11:50:32 AM PST by Paul Ross ("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the govt and I'm here to help)
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To: Question_Assumptions
The Byzantines even forgot how to sail. My Byzantine history professor told us of a Byzantine attempt to build a warship but they were so inept that they abandoned ship when it was caught up in the Bosphorus currents. The Italians boarded it and sailed it back and forth in front of the city, dragging their flag in the water.

Good historical point. Seems like the outsourcing trap has a long and illustrious pedigree. The Romans and the Goths...

The Globalists never square their dreams of world governmental institutions with the facts of history.

207 posted on 11/08/2005 11:54:50 AM PST by Paul Ross ("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the govt and I'm here to help)
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To: Paul Ross

Thanks for the ping!


208 posted on 11/08/2005 11:56:55 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: vrwc0915

Or one can import ChiCom spies, like the ones just rounded up in LA selling our Aegis navy defense systems.


209 posted on 11/08/2005 11:58:01 AM PST by KC_Conspirator (This space outsourced to India)
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To: 1rudeboy

"H1-B's pay income tax in the U.S"

Do they pay the full tax? Do they pay SS?


210 posted on 11/08/2005 12:02:02 PM PST by dljordan
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To: TopQuark
The overall inflation, which includes food, is very low.

You did see this part?

At the most recent IFMA Forecast & Outlook Seminar, Technomic revealed that now, unlike last year, when labor was the issue, the cost of food is the top concern among operators. Seven in 10 operators surveyed said costs are rising significantly. Two-thirds had raised menu prices an average of 4 percent in the last six months, and close to half expected another hike of 3 percent in the next six months. As for manufacturers, Technomic reported that a big part of its sales growth has been a result of price increases. Real sales growth has not been robust. Nearly eight out of 10 manufacturers raised prices to distributors by an average of 6 percent and expect additional increases in the future. In fact, prices have risen so rapidly that some distributors say it is hard to keep up with pricing changes in their systems.

211 posted on 11/08/2005 12:27:58 PM PST by Paul Ross ("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the govt and I'm here to help)
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To: TopQuark
The overall inflation, which includes food, is very low. And the food component also experiences low inflation. Spikes here and there are uninformative.,/i>

Says who...the politicians invested in understating the problem?

I commend this article for a fair grasp on the situation, at Safehaven.com And no, I'm not a gold bug.

Safe Haven | Preservation of Capital
"If stupidity got us into this mess, then
why can't it get us out?" - Will Rogers
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March 01, 2005

Don't Ask, Don't Tell

Members reported that the prices they pay increased in December for the 33rd consecutive month, with a slightly faster rate of increase than in November. December's Prices Index is 71.4 percent, a rise of 0.4 percentage point from the 74 percent reported in November. This month, 38 percent of all respondents and 13 of 17 non-manufacturing industries reported paying higher prices compared to November. Many of members' comments regarding business in December indicate continued positive business conditions but with continued concern for inflationary pressures. Specific comments include: "Successful 2004 year tempered by inflation fears and huge federal debt. Outlook for 2005 is guarded."
- Taken verbatim from the ISM Non-Manufacturing Report of 2/3/05

"The index is clearly telling us that there is no downturn or easing of inflation in sight. This is at odds with the market's initial response to today's weaker-than-expected jobs report," said Lakshman Achuthan, Managing Director of ECRI.

The index's annualized growth rate, which smooths out monthly fluctuations, rose to 4.5 percent in January from an upwardly revised 3.4 percent in December.

"Inflation has gone from below 2 percent to above 3 percent. While these are not huge numbers of inflation, we do have a 50-percent rise in the overall rate of inflation," Lakshman Achuthan, Managing Director of ECRI, said.

"If we go from 2 to 3 that is a relatively large rise, and the future inflation gauge is telling us is that this type of rise is likely to continue," he said.

Looking forward, Achuthan said inflation rates of 3.5 and 4 percent are reasonable expectations.

"But a return to very strong inflation like we saw in the 70s is not in the cards." he said.
- Taken verbatim from the ECRI (Economic Cycle Research Institute) US Inflation Gauge report of 2/4/05

The Committee perceives the upside and downside risks to the attainment of both sustainable growth and price stability for the next few quarters to be roughly equal. With underlying inflation expected to be relatively low, the Committee believes that policy accommodation can be removed at a pace that is likely to be measured. Nonetheless, the Committee will respond to changes in economic prospects as needed to fulfill its obligation to maintain price stability.
- FOMC Comments post the 2/2/05 Fed Funds Rate Increase

CP (Pie In The Sky) I...As you know, the debate over inflation rages on. At this point, it seems to be a matter of perspective. It depends on where you're sitting, as can be seen in the compare and contrast comments above. At least based on the ISM and ECRI commentary, if you happen to be in the trenches of actual daily business activity, inflationary pressures have been and sure appear to continue to be a real concern. Alternatively, if you're sitting in the wood lined offices of the marbled floored Federal Reserve, inflation's not much of an issue at all apparently. All right, let's get to the real meat of this discussion. As always, no ranting and raving, we promise. We want to spend a few minutes looking at the actual calculation of the CPI by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (the BLS). We suggest it is illuminating, to say the very least. As you know, a lot of folks tend to look at the headline number, as they do a lot of stats, and draw immediate conclusions. But, as always, it's what's underneath the headlines that really counts.

Before getting started, let's take a very brief look at the inflation in household residential real estate values as per the Fed's own Flow of Funds reported numbers.

Year Over Year Increase In Household Residential Real Estate Values ($billions)
2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 Through 3Q Cumulative
$1,010.3 $1,088.7 $1,197.0 $1,430.5 $1,601.7 $6,328.4

There is no question that the monetization of this inflation in real estate values you see above has been holding up domestic consumption as the rate of change in personal spending has been outstripping the rate of change in personal income growth in the US like clockwork for the last three years (the economic recovery period). What follows is how this same inflation in residential real estate prices depicted above that is holding up the US consumer is influencing, or not influencing as the case may be, the reported inflation numbers in this country. Specifically the CPI.

First things first. The following are the component "weights" the BLS uses to calculate the reported headline CPI each month.

As you can see, at 42+%, housing is THE single largest component in the reported CPI calculation. It's wildly meaningful to the headline number, to say nothing of general perceptions regarding domestic inflation. A few little tidbits before pushing forward. In total, energy specifically only accounts for 7% of the overall CPI, with food and beverage prices clocking in at just about 15% of the complete weight of the index. So, energy and food combined are just a little over one-half of the total weight that housing accounts for singularly in the CPI calculation. Again, to suggest that the housing component of the CPI is meaningful is simply a gross understatement. OK, let's dig a little bit deeper. The housing component of the CPI is further broken down as follows:

CPI COMPONENT % Weight In Total CPI Calculation
Total Housing 42.1%
Shelter 32.9%
     Rent Of Primary Residence 6.2
     Lodging Away From Home 2.9
     Owners Equivalent Rent 23.4
Fuels and Utilities 4.8
     Fuel 3.8
          Fuel Oil and Other 0.2
          Gas and Electric 3.6
     Water and Sewer 0.9
Household Furnishings 4.5
     Household Operations 0.7

As you can see, we're basically cutting to the chase here in terms of breaking down the housing component of the CPI in terms of individual input weights as a percentage of the total CPI calculation. The single largest component input in the CPI is Owners Equivalent Rent (OER) at 23.4% of the total reported headline CPI. Now, the BLS tells us that it polls on a monthly basis 50,000 landlords and tenants in coming up with the OER number. OK, here come the facts of the moment. In 2004, the year over year rate of change in Owners Equivalent Rent increased all of 2.2%. And you know by now that the year over year rate of change in the headline CPI number came in at 3.3%. BUT, you also know that as of year end 2004, the actual homeownership rate in the US stood at a record 69.2%. In other words, just less than 31% of the US population was actually renting as opposed to owning residential property. So, when the CPI calculation is being made, 23.4% of the entire CPI number is picking up the "housing cost inflation" experience of only 31% of the total US population. The housing cost inflation experience of the other 69% is largely being ignored. C'mon, does this make sense?

Alright, time for a little journey down memory lane. In the following chart, we are graphing the prior three decade history of the reported change in the year over year CPI-Shelter number and the OFHEO (Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight - the FNM and FRE regulator) year over year home price rate of change data. A few quick notes of explanation. The owners equivalent rent number is 71%+ of the reported CPI-Shelter component, so the Shelter numbers are a pretty darn good approximation of the influence of owners equivalent rent on the total CPI headline number. The most recent year over year rate of change data that is as of 3Q 2004 came in at 13% for the US as a whole. A far cry from owners equivalent rent at up 2.2% and total CPI-Shelter up 3% in 2004. Moreover, as you might know, year over year home price acceleration in the US coastal areas was up between 15-20%. The West Coast specifically was up near 23% in home price changes year over year. The following is the longer term history of the change in OFHEO home price data alongside the very important and influential CPI-Shelter numbers.

NEVER before have we seen this type of rate of change differential between the rate of change in the OFHEO home price data and the rate of change seen in the housing costs implicit in the CPI-Shelter data. NEVER. Is it fair to say that NEVER has the headline CPI been less reflective of real US residential housing price inflation? Or alternatively, is it fair to say that NEVER has the CPI been so understated relative to the actual accelerating cost of US residential real estate? In all sincerity, we believe the answer to both questions is a resounding yes.

Some very quick and simplistic math. Given that the year over year rate of change in CPI-Shelter was 3% last year, and that the CPI-Shelter component makes up about 33% of the total CPI, the shelter component added about 1% in absolute terms to the total 3.3% CPI headline number for 2004. If we used the 13% OFHEO housing price increase number as opposed to the 3% CPI-Shelter price increase number to adjust the total CPI calculation, the absolute percentage contribution of CPI-Shelter to total CPI would have been about 4.3%. Cutting right to the bottom line, as opposed to a 3.3% CPI rate for 2004, using the OFHEO data as a substitute for the CPI shelter number would have caused headline CPI rate of change to jump over 6% in 2004. Are we saying that 6+% is really the true inflation rate in the US? We won't go quite that far, although it's sure tempting. After all, 31% of the folks in the US are renting. We prefer to characterize the situation as one where we believe it is absolutely fair to say that the reported CPI of the moment is meaningfully understating the true rate of consumer inflation in the US if one wishes to capture the true inflation in residential real estate values. And what we believe backs up this comment entirely is the fact that every single number used in the analysis or calculations above came directly from a government entity or agency. Every single one.

One last comment on how the CPI is interpreted and often used in mainstream analysis. As you know, we often see analysts use the "core" rate of CPI as the real indicator of consumer price pressures at any point in time. The core rate, of course, being the headline number stripped of the influence of food and energy costs. As we stated above, food and energy components of the CPI account for roughly 22% of the total weight of the index. If we assume that the owners equivalent rent component is also being understated quite meaningfully in the current environment in terms of the true inflation in residential housing costs, we need to remember that this component again represents a substantial 23%+ of the total headline CPI weight. So, although this might sound like a stretch, when we're looking at the supposed "core rate" of inflation, we're really stripping out food, energy, and by academic definition of being understated meaningfully, housing. In other words, the current "core rate" quotes are really excluding the true costs of food, energy and housing. That being the case, how can we really consider this a "consumer" price index when it is essentially excluding the true nature of the three largest and most important consumables, so to speak, in any consumers life? Although this is really a point in time comment more than anything else, the current CPI is telling us very little about real world cost pressures at the consumer level. And, as you know, we haven't even ventured down the path of exploring the hedonic price adjustments likewise influencing reported CPI data to the downside.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell...Let's get to the matters at hand that affect us as investors each day. Also some comments about what may lie ahead. First, do you really believe that the Fed and the Administration are unaware of the extremely simple data and calculations presented above? Do you really think they are that out to lunch? Do you really think they are complete idiots? Of course you don't. After all, everything above just happens to be their data. Although we're not wild fans of Fed policy over the last decade+, we indeed do give them credit for being able to carry out simple addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. That we're pretty darn sure of. The Fed knows that residential real estate prices are inflating meaningfully and rents are not. They know the CPI at the moment is not indicative of true inflationary pressures when it comes to consumer prices in the here and now. But they and the Administration have a vested interest in appearing ignorant.

As you know, the headline CPI number is the key ingredient in annual Social Security COLA's (cost of living adjustments). Moreover, the CPI is the principal adjustment factor in annual TIP (Treasury Inflation Protected securities) total rate of return payouts (some protection, right?). Military and civil service wage COLA's depend on the CPI. And so do levels of Federal Income tax tables in terms of potential "bracket creep". (A lower CPI does not allow absolute dollar thresholds of incremental tax brackets to "creep" up much at all, academically meaning a higher total absolute dollar level of taxes collected.) The bottom line is that the higher the CPI rises, the more the absolute dollar cost to the government annually. Let's face it, we have a massive Federal deficit already (both on and off balance sheet). Does the Fed or the government really want to see that move meaningfully higher due to a CPI calculation that perhaps would be a bit shocking if indeed it reflected reality? And finally, a substantially higher headline CPI could, in all sincerity, push the Fed into raising short term interest rates much faster than has been the case up to this point due solely to financial market perceptions. The Fed knows the current US economy is highly levered. They know a rapid Fed Funds rate acceleration would absolutely cause some real damage and perhaps immediately burst a number of financial and real world bubbles they themselves fostered in the first place. From our standpoint, they and the Administration (responsible for the CPI calculation) are playing a game of "perceptual chicken" with the markets when it comes to reported inflation. They are practicing a "don't ask, don't tell policy". Dangerous? Yes. But what is their alternative at this point given their failure in terms of lack of financial discipline many moons ago?

This brings us to what we believe is one last important issue. And an extremely important issue it is. What about the trillions and trillions of dollars sitting apparently quite complacently in the US bond markets at the moment? Are the majority of current US bond holders complete idiots? Can they not do the simple calculations presented above? Are they willing to accept implicit negative real rates of return across the entire Treasury curve of the moment based on the reality of CPI numbers adjusted to real world facts as opposed to the headline reports? Or are they also adhering to the financial mantra of "don't ask, don't tell"? Although we're trying to factually break out the real world data and are literally attempting to quantitatively "prove" that the current CPI numbers are not reflective of current economic reality, there have been plenty of voices on the Street suggesting the same for some time now. Bond "superstar" Bill Gross has been singing this song for so long that he's being dismissed by many as a "broken record". All of the Blue Chip Economists in each Business Week survey of the last few years have been predicting higher long term interest rates. Are inflation paranoid bond vigilante's simply asleep at the wheel? Or were they shot dead in the bond market version of the OK Corral some time back?

We won't belabor the point, but this little simplistic CPI adjustment calculation discussion again simply reinforces in our minds that the current day bond market is not about anticipating or discounting real world inflation at all in terms of setting fixed income prices. Or anticipating deflation either, for that matter. The US bond market of the moment is all about playing interest rate spreads. It's all about levered speculation. Believe us, the Fed has much bigger problems than an understated CPI at the moment. Much bigger in terms of total financial market leverage of the moment. Until the leveraged speculating and interest rate spread driven carry trade game comes to an end, we sure as heck would not be looking to the bond market for clues as to the true nature of inflationary pressures, or lack thereof, in the real economy. Levered bond players playing the spread game could care less about inflation. Theirs is a world of basis point spreads, yield differentials, mathematical algorithms and interest rate protection derivatives overlays. In other words, this ain't your father's bond market anymore. Get it?

Again, we suggest being aware of the dynamics at work and the reality of the macro economic numbers at present is our best investment offense in looking ahead. At some point, the markets will reflect economic reality. For now, unprecedented systemic liquidity creation and resulting leverage has skewed the connection between the fixed income markets and the underlying reality of inflationary pressures in the real economy. Hopefully, if we can already "see" it, we can act accordingly when change ultimately descends upon the markets and the economy (as it always has in the past and will again down the road). But in the meantime, you know the game implicitly being played by the mainstream - don't ask, don't tell.


Market Observations
ContraryInvestor.com

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212 posted on 11/08/2005 3:51:09 PM PST by Paul Ross ("The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the govt and I'm here to help)
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To: blueriver
For someone that makes trivial errors, you are too quick to use the word "ludicrous.

Citizenship has never been a barrier to mobility of labor. A company is always free to move it's operations to another country and hire whatever labor is desired. It is absolutely ludicrous to say that a company is forced to stay in this country

Movement of a company is movement of capital, not labor.

You also put words in my mouth: I never even addressed whether companies are free to move.

If something in my post is not clear to you, ask instead of assuming a fighting posture and throwing words around, whose meaning you do not understand fully. I am glad to have a discussion but have no interest in contests.

213 posted on 11/09/2005 3:31:15 PM PST by TopQuark (1)
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To: RockyMtnMan
They were paid 150k a year because of market demand, or perceived market demand. Either the dipshits that were paying them didn't understand market economics OR the market dictated their value based on limited supply.

Isn't this what I said? Except for using a derogatory word in reference to market participants. Obviously, you don't know that market participants, in the aggregate, are always smart --- smarter than any other economic institution.

214 posted on 11/09/2005 3:34:34 PM PST by TopQuark (1)
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To: Paul Ross
You're the one accusing people who want law enforcement...

This is patently false to the point of absurd: not only did I not do that but stated that I too want propert enforcement.

215 posted on 11/09/2005 3:36:38 PM PST by TopQuark (1)
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To: Paul Ross
further note that you have still not responded to the issue of national defense.

Since when responding to every post has become part of my job description?

You may want to cool down a bit.

How DO you feel about the security implications of hiring Chinese "brainpower"?

Badly.

216 posted on 11/09/2005 3:38:09 PM PST by TopQuark (1)
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To: TopQuark
Here is your quote:

Actually, form economic perspective, it is the citizenship that constitutes barrier to mobility of labor. The visa program lowers that barrier.

You are technically correct - citizenship is a barrier to mobility of labor. My response was addressing the underlying issue that this barrier raises. In my opinion this is a good barrier. If a corporation does not like the labor pool in this country or the labor pool does not meet it's needs then that company is free to move. Why should our government have to change it's immigration policies to satisfy corporation x's labor barriers. Labor barriers that are self induced due to the lack of desire to move out of the USA.

217 posted on 11/09/2005 4:42:47 PM PST by blueriver
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To: blueriver
Why should our government have to change it's immigration policies to satisfy corporation x's labor barriers.

Worth repeating.

218 posted on 11/09/2005 4:54:54 PM PST by evolved_rage
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To: TopQuark
You are technically correct - citizenship is a barrier to mobility of labor.

My comment above is actually wrong. Citizenship is not a barrier to mobility of labor. People in this country are free to move about. So from a perspective of the citizen there is no such barrier and therefore from a perspective of the government there should be no need to change the immigration laws - H-1B included.

219 posted on 11/09/2005 5:35:27 PM PST by blueriver
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To: blueriver
In my opinion this is a good barrier.

This is my opinion as well.

If a corporation does not like the labor pool in this country or the labor pool does not meet it's needs then that company is free to move.

I completely agree with this statement as it is worded.

The problem addressed by H1-B is not this one, however: it deals with a sort of an intermediate situation, where the company prefers to stay in the U.S. but lacks very few individuals. If a company wants to hire a German manager to reside in the U.S. but direct marketing campaigns in Germany and Switzerland, say. The company likes 10,000 American workers in its plants. What is it to do? Certainly not move the entire company to Germany, right? Whom does it benefit if we don't allow that German manager to come and work in the U.S.? Nobody (and actually increases the costs of goods, for which we all pay). The same situation occurs em masse in major universities. Talent is spread around the world, and universities want the best. If the candidate happens to be Italian, why not hire him/her?

Situations such as this is what H1-B is designed for. The German manager and the Italian professor are allowed to work. YOu never hear about the success of this program, however: all you hear is whining from programmers. It is true that some abuses may exist in that sector (and should be dealt with accordingly) but that does not reflect neither on the objective nor success of the program.

220 posted on 11/09/2005 5:55:50 PM PST by TopQuark (1)
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