.40 vs .45 LAW ENFORCEMENT USE

[bramdawg]

Going onto a local PD in los angeles area. Have heard stories both about .40's and .45's what is really the difference. I know comfort is important put I want to know if I will be safe with a .40 or if I should go with .45. I want the best gun for my job.

[TChris]

The .40 S&W is a cut-down version of the 10mm. The FBI used the 10mm for a while and found that the full load had too much recoil, and the load they liked only used part of the case capacity. The case was shortened to the required length and the .40 S&W was born.

AFAIK, the .40 S&W gives you more rounds in a slightly smaller-framed gun and slightly higher velocities than the .45 ACP.

The advice about shot placement is good. If you hit the perp in the right place, either caliber will do just fine.

[Admin Moderator]

Knock it off.

[Billthedrill]

Your department will give you the specs. Most of them specify the .40 (often a Glock model 22) over a .45 for reasons that aren't always good ones, notably that a .40 with a round chambered under the striker is perceived as "safer" than a .45 cocked and locked. And most figure that 15 in the mag is better than 7 or 8.

My real advice is to go with what you've trained with if you've the choice and if you haven't trained with either you aren't ready for the street yet. IMHO, of course.

[BurbankKarl]

LAPD will let you choose between 9mm, .40SW and .45

[archy]

Going onto a local PD in los angeles area. Have heard stories both about .40's and .45's what is really the difference. I know comfort is important put I want to know if I will be safe with a .40 or if I should go with .45. I want the best gun for my job.

Happily, your department will put a lot of time and money into training you in all sorts of things,including the use of your handgun. And yours is the pragmatic approach of a master craftsman regarding his tools, or an Olympic athlete regarding his performance: get the very best that works the very best for you.

Best approach for right now: dab around a bit and try out some of the suggestions that have appeared in response to your post here,but don't go overboard- it's just familiarization you're looking for right now. Then let your department train you in whatever standard or approved weapon that agency uses, which is hopefully based on what has worked for other officers in the past more than on budgetary considerions or outright kickbacks- which has been the case too often in my area.

Then, after you find yourself as a rookie/probationary spending lots of time with your field trainer, find out what's worked for him/her and others using the same equipment you use in the conditions of your local area.

Most likely you'll fimd that it's more common for agency-issued holsters, belt equipment and ammo to be crap rather than the weapons themselves- and you may find it smart to practice using your own magazines that ALWAYS work [or else get rid of them] rather than the pass-around leftovers that others have had problems with while they're on the range. And, like your cuffs, your personal mags should have your badge number engraved on them after you've got one.

I've ownned most of everything in the Glock line, most of which just doesn't fit my hand well, and I don't care much for their .40 caliber offerings. If the city you work for gives you a free one, swell. Likewise I find the issue M9/M96FS Beretta that I was stuck with for deserter apprehensions and transports to be more than a little clunky in my habnd, though the California Highway Patrol was still using the.40 version of them, last I heard. I've owned and carried 9mm Browning GP/ Hi-Powers since 1967, and have one I've owned since 1968; it's had just over a hundred thousand rounds through it and has needed rebluing three times. I had it during one critical shooting incident and it got the job done though I've changed my thoughts about the ammo for that use since then...but I very much know what that pistol will and won't do, though I've more-or-less retired it from serious use.

And most recently I fall back on my own beginnings and use a .45 ACP Government Model, most recently an Argentine Modelo 1927, sometimes a .45 Combat Commander. The M1911 design has served my family well for three generations and is about to enter its fourth, so in part I'm setting an example that may be followed in part or in whole, or may become the basis for an informed choice to go with something else.

But in general, I'd advise you to first pick the caliber you'd most prefer to have your life depend upon. You can then choose which mechanism in which to use it.

[archy]

I know for a fact that a .40 Glock doesn't work on 1900 lb steers...

Concur. Nor on angry circa 450-pound momma hawgs....

[jec1ny]

"And there is no semi that has the stopping power of a .357 mag"
"Assuming, of course, that the .44 Magnum Desert Eagle has been disqualified."

You are correct. I failed to note what I thought was the obvious qualification in the sentence. Any choice for a self defense weapon (whether for LE work or personal carry) must be practical. By which I mean you can carry it comfortably, you can conceal it without having to go to extreme lengths if concealment is desired, and you can fire the gun rapidly and accurately. The Desert Eagle .44 mag is a truly beautiful weapon. But for most people its not terribly practical as a defensive firearm.

[Travis McGee]

A double stack mag carries lots more bullets, which is a GOOD THING.

A .45 double stack is real fat, which may be a problem if you don't have large hands.

A double stack .40 mag is easier to fit into a slim grip.

Either will work.

[Travis McGee]

Sig has made a hit out of a necked-down .40S&W, calling it the .357 Sig.

CorBon bullets tried out a necked-down .45, calling it something like the .45/40 CorBon.

I don't know if any major manufacturers produced a pistol in that caliber. That, I'd like to see.

I'm gussing it would push a 165gr bullet at about 1,500fps.

[Tijeras_Slim]

He needs a VPC approved "Bullet Hose", endorsed by experts. :)

[jec1ny]

"LAPD will let you choose between 9mm, .40SW and .45"

All are acceptable weapons. None would be my preference. Given that choice it would probably come down to the .40 or the .45. I stand by my preference for a good revolver chambered for .357 mag though. Its so sad that a lot of departments (and people in general) assume that newer is better. In many cases its not.

It can take take up to 45 mins in some cases to execute a man using lethal injection. When performed by a competent executioner it takes about 30 seconds to put the noose around a man's neck and pull the trap door. Add another 3/4 of a second or so to reach the end of the rope and you have a successful hanging. After that it's just waiting for the heart to realize that its dead and to stop beating. So much for modern technology.

[P8riot]

These debates go on everywhere.

Personally, I carry a 100grain 9mm round with more muzzle energy (483 ftlbs) and velocity (1475 ft/sec) than a 230 grain .45 (350 ftlbs at 830 ft/sec), but any caliber will do. Shot placement is what really matters. If I hit a BG in the heart with a .22LR it may take him a while, but he's gonna know he's been hit and will most likeley die. If I hit a BG in the shoulder with a .45 he is still a threat.

BG = Bad Guy

[BurbankKarl]

There are 88 cities in Los Angeles County....last time I looked.

As for law enforcement strictly within the City of Los Angeles, I can think of:

LAPD
LASD - Transit Services Bureau (Subways and busses)
LA Port Police
LA GSD Police (protects city buildings, libraries)
LA Park Rangers (protects city parks)
LA County Safety Police (protects county parks/buildings)
LA Airport Police (Van Nuys and LAX)

[yarddog]

I say go with a .25 auto, the Beretta with the skeleton grips. That is what James Bond used until M made him go with a Walther.

Not really, just being a smart aleck.

I honestly don't think it makes a big difference once you get above maybe a 38 special. For that matter even a .32 will do for most purposes.

I personally would choose a .45 very slightly over a .40 but that is just a guess.

[Squantos]

Lots of different considerations as a cop I think Archy and Bramdawg.....What is your departments most carried handgun, 9MM, 40 Short and Wimpy or 45ACP ? If everyone is carrying a 40 Glock I'd look at that caliber for one reason and that is the ability to share spare mags if the situation should arise.

Myself I would suggest the new 45GAP as it comes in a neat durable glock 17 size package, it's a short clone ballistically to the 45ACP and I am pretty taken with my G37 (magnaported later) I have had for about six months. I have ran about 2000 rounds through it without a burp or chirp and it's very easy and fast on failure drills of two to the chest and one to the noggin.

I suggest the combat tupperware for cops for one reason, durability to carry 12 hours a day on duty, stands up to wear and tear and no bells or whistles and with a good security duty holster which I think Big Ern can help you with makes a very comfortable rig. I'd take a serious look at that caliber and setup for LEO work.

Key in my opinion is to bring what ya can hit with and if that is a 9MM or 357SIG then sobeit . Hits are all that count when muscle memorymatic pucker factor kicks in. If ya can't hit then caliber, make model and cool factors are all BS......

Hits under duress are prime consideration for choosing a sidearm . Hope I gave ya something to think about as you make your choice as it is YOUR choice ya have to live with....

Stay safe !

[TC Rider]

If the dept is giving you your choice of duty weapons, I would go with a .45

A .357 hp may expand to .45 on impact, but a .45 will never shrink.

The .45 is easier to shoot and has a proven record.

I like 1911s, but you can always get a .45 in a Glock, Sig, whatever OS. If your hands are smallish, look at a .45 GAP, the new shorter .45 cartridge introduced by Glock.

Choose your off duty gun to shoot the same caliber, that makes practice and carrying easier, not to mention acquiring practice ammo. You should also consider getting a smaller version of your duty gun for off duty use. There are compact 1911's, baby Glocks, etc that use the same OS and ammo.

[Squantos]

Moot point for Gun Porn.....Trolls can start all the threads they want and it's the info folks post in response that the rest of us learn from...... sharing ideas from the responses vs the troll, real or not, who planted the seed ! He already stated he's not knowledgeable. No ones posted anything illegal....just good reading to learn from each other IMO.

WhoooHooo ! Gun Porn !!........:o)

Stay safe ya'll !

[GingisK]

But for most people its not terribly practical as a defensive firearm.

;-D

It is pretty beefy. Feels like a handfull. You could wear it in back and just say, "What hump?".

[chadwimc]

Yeah, sure, Treader. There were several of you loud mouths in the barnyard telling us what we were doing wrong. None of 'em wanted to *SHOW* me how to do it right. In the end, a 30/30 put the poor beast down. I reached out to make the cut to bleed him, I had to put one last .40 hollow point in him. It put me off eating meat for several hours... :^)

[Tijeras_Slim]

It's true! Everything I learned about guns I learned from Eaker and Squantos!