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Worldly word:New Bible texts translate the Bible away
WORLD ^ | October 15, 2005 | Gene Edward Veith

Posted on 10/07/2005 8:38:02 AM PDT by Caleb1411

As evangelicals debate the inclusive-language Today's New International Version (TNIV), many liberal mainline churches have slipped far down the slippery slope in what they have done to the Bible.

In 1990, the National Council of Churches published the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), an inclusive-language rendition of the well-accepted Revised Standard Version (RSV). This translation keeps masculine references to God and to Jesus, but changes them for human beings, getting rid of the generic "man," putting "brothers and sisters" where the original just has "brothers," and using awkward plurals and repetitions to avoid the generic "he." Never mind that the messianic title "Son of Man" is now "a human being." What the NRSV did to the RSV is pretty much what the TNIV did to the NIV.

But that much inclusive language was not enough for many mainline churches. An Inclusive Language Lectionary, a rendition of Scripture texts read during the worship service, takes the next step of changing the gendered language for God. Today, the congregations who use this lectionary in Sunday worship pray to "our Father-Mother." Jesus is not the Son of God, but the "child of God." The pronoun "he" is not even used for the man Jesus, replaced with ungrammatical constructions: "Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us" becomes "Jesus Christ, who gave self for us" (Titus 2:13-14).

But that much tinkering proved not to be enough either. In 1995, Oxford University Press published the New Testament and Psalms: An Inclusive Version. This revision of the NRSV not only uses gender-inclusive language for God and Jesus ("God our father-mother"), it also eliminates, in the words of the introduction, "all pejorative references to race, color, or religion, and all identifications of persons by their physical disability." In avoiding all "offensive language," "darkness" is changed to "night," lest it offend black people, and "the right hand of God" is changed to "the mighty hand of God," lest it offend left-handed people.

But that does not go far enough. The liberal Catholic group Priests for Equality published in 2004 the Inclusive Bible. "Kingdom" is both sexist and authoritarian, so the priests made up a new word, "kindom." Adam is not a "man," he is an "earth creature." And to avoid offending homosexuals or others in nontraditional relationships, the words "husband" and "wife" are changed to "partner."

But since radical theology depends on demonizing the "patriarchy" of the Bible, the Inclusive Bible includes footnotes admitting that "the actual Hebrew is even more brutal" and chastising the apostle Paul for his retrograde attitudes. Then the translators just change the text to something more suitable.

But the Inclusive Bible does not go far enough either. The Bible version Good as New: A Radical Retelling of the Scriptures uses what its introduction calls "cultural translation." Not only is it inclusive, it translates ancient terms into their modern-day equivalent. Thus, "demon possession" becomes "mental illness." Even names are changed: Peter, Nicodemus, and Bethsaida become "Rocky," "Ray," and "Fishtown." Religious terminology is eliminated, as not being in accord with our culture: "Baptize" is changed to "dip"; "salvation" is changed to "completeness."

The translation describes itself as "women, gay and sinner friendly." Thus, when Paul says that it is better to marry than to burn, the Inclusive Bible says, "If you know you have strong needs, get yourself a partner. Better than being frustrated." The Inclusive Bible follows the higher critics in leaving out the Pastoral Epistles and Revelation, and it follows The Da Vinci Code in including instead the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas. This translation is endorsed by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, and the evangelical leader Tony Campolo.

But does any of this matter, as long as people are exposed to the Bible? Yes, it does. The bisexual deity "Father-Mother" is not the true God, nor is this made-up religion Christianity. These translations are not the Word of God. Just the Word of Man.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: apostate; bible; christianity; heresy; heretic; moralabsolutes; purge; religiousleft; screwballs; screwytranslations; tniv
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To: Mr Rogers
someone who believes the 'Gospel of Thomas' is part of the Bible isn't interested in honest debate

I'm not a believer, and had you been following the thread you would have known that. If you're really interested in "honest debate" read the thread.

Ah, now I see - you don't know what a Christian is!

I'll bite...What's a Christian?
.
201 posted on 10/07/2005 7:44:07 PM PDT by radioman
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To: TonyRo76

I just got my ESV and so far I really like it.


202 posted on 10/07/2005 7:55:13 PM PDT by lupie
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To: radioman

I'm struggling to understand what you mean.

I travel plenty, but I'm at a loss.

You agree that Bacon's a red herring and so's the Gospel of Thomas.

There are still Christians that follow older traditions, yes. Most Christians, actually, since about 90% of the Christians in the world are Catholic or Orthodox, and those traditions are as old as Christianity itself. (But they don't use the Gospel of Thomas either.)

The tomb where the body of Jesus lies?
And where is that?

I am flummoxed at what you're talking about.
Completely confused.

One question.
Have you ever read the Gospel of Thomas?


203 posted on 10/07/2005 8:13:38 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: strongbow

I'm just hoping that God needed him for the ultimate Praise band.


204 posted on 10/07/2005 8:16:30 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: ArrogantBustard

Bethsaida means house of fish....and Nicodemus means victory of the people...don[t know how they get ray out of that...


205 posted on 10/07/2005 8:35:12 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Sans-Culotte
The pastor at the Presbyterian USA church of which my wife and I are members has already started inserting the Father-Mother thing.

We've had discussions before, and I'll not repeat them here, but frankly, if you don't like the local PCA church, and don't want to drive, just about anything this side of the LDS or JWs is going to be better than what you have now. I have some of my most vigorous exchanges with Dispensationalists, but you'd be better off in a Bible Church than where you are now. In your metro area, you can even find two or 3 PCUSAs that are going to be far better than what you are doing now.

Brother, run, and don't look back. If your wife won't go, tell her you'll meet her for lunch.

And if you do want me to repeat myself on PCA options, let me know.

206 posted on 10/07/2005 10:11:20 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Vicomte13
Catholic or Orthodox, and those traditions are as old as Christianity itself

No, not really. The early Christians were known as Ebionites or Nazarenes. They still practice their faith today. You can find them from Israel to India. They still speak the language of Jesus, Aramaic-Syriac. Many are descendants of the disciples and relatives of Christ. They practice a different Christianity than the newer Roman and Orthodox churches.

And where is that?

Shrinagar, Kashmir.
Was a great place to visit when I was there in the sixties, but I don't think I'd want to go there today.

Is the guy in the tomb Jesus Christ? I don't know, but hundreds of thousands of the world's oldest Christian church think so.

Have you ever read the Gospel of Thomas?

Yes I have and no I don't think it was written by Thomas the brother of Jesus.

I am flummoxed at what you're talking about.
Completely confused


Christianity has many houses. Some want our nation to conform to a dogma that they themselves can't agree on. They want America to be a Christian nation. Ireland is a Christian nation and the Christians there can't stop murdering each other. Do they want the same for America?
. .
207 posted on 10/07/2005 10:44:12 PM PDT by radioman
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To: radioman

Ok, I understand.

Yes, there are indeed many Christian sects, and Christian sects have been murdering each other for centuries.

So have the non-religious devotees of government.

And so have bad-tempered individuals living alone on the moors and in the hills.

Now, when you say "the world's oldest Christian Church", you're taking a side in an historical debate. There were divisions in the early Church, and there are still today. This is nothing new. However, one of the important early divisions was the one that became the Catholic one, and that was calling itself "catholic" before the end of the first century.

Some early Christians trod the path of which you speak, but theirs is not the "oldest Christian church". It is as old as its Catholic twin, born at the same time. So, when you suggest that the Catholic church is "newer", that is not true. Likewise, when you point to "the language of Jesus", that makes two assumptions. One is that Jesus had only one language. There's no very good reason to believe that. The other is that one particular language is holier or more authentic than another. And there's no basis to believe that at all.

It is fine to have your religious preferences, and if you want to take up the cause of one of the very earliest Christian sects, nobody is going to stop you. However, you overstate the case when you call it "older" and the Catholic "newer". They were siblings, born at the same time. And the one grew and took over the Earth, and the other did not have the same growth and career. That difference in relative success may say something about the will of God, or it may say nothing at all about it.


208 posted on 10/08/2005 6:16:58 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: TonyRo76
For an alternative that's a bit more literal, with very elegant language yet still understandable, have you checked out the English Standard Version?

I like the NASV because I understnd from bible scholars that it is the most accurate translation of all of them.

209 posted on 10/08/2005 7:32:14 AM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: radioman
A troll who is forced to pay taxes to your church in a country that is supposed to have separation of church and state!

Who forces you to pay taxes? The church? Think again. Secondly, how do you figure that your taxes go to any church?

210 posted on 10/08/2005 7:33:53 AM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: Vicomte13
calling itself "catholic" before the end of the first century.

There were no Catholics until the Council of Nicea in 325 AD.

if you want to take up the cause of one of the very earliest Christian sects

I take up no cause, I am not a Christian. I answered a simple question which led to all of this.

And the one grew and took over the Earth

Might makes right!
.
211 posted on 10/08/2005 8:41:10 AM PDT by radioman
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To: SmartCitizen
Secondly, how do you figure that your taxes go to any church?

Ever heard of the Faith Based Initiative?
The government is taking money from me and giving it to Christian churches. If I don't pay, the government will send men with guns to my home. Is that separation of church and state?
.
212 posted on 10/08/2005 8:46:20 AM PDT by radioman
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To: radioman
Ever heard of the Faith Based Initiative?

It isn't the church doing the taxing - it's the government. Write your Congressman. I am against it by the way.

213 posted on 10/08/2005 8:50:37 AM PDT by SmartCitizen
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To: Caleb1411

bookmarking


214 posted on 10/08/2005 9:00:47 AM PDT by Dianna
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To: radioman

"There were no Catholics until the Council of Nicea in 325 AD."

This is incorrect.

When Eusebius, Bishop of Caesaria, wrote his History of the Church in the 290s AD, and subsequently updated it, he wrote about the Catholic Church, by that name, and he cited documents from much earlier times that, similarly were Catholic or called themselves Catholic.

There has been a Catholic Church, consciously aware of itself as such, since the days of the Apostles, and there have been bishops of said church self-consciously CALLING IT THAT in documents dating from before 100 AD.

So, while it is not historically inaccurate to assert that there were other competing Christian sects from the earliest time, it is simply wrong to argue that there was no Catholic Church before the Council of Nicaea.
Eusebius wrote a comprehensive history of the Catholic Church a quarter of a century before Nicaea, and he traced the lines of various bishops and patriarchs back. The 100's AD is ancient to us, but it was almost within living memory of the men of Eusebius' age. Now, they very well may have argued as to the authenticity of doctrines, but one thing they WEREN'T arguing about (we have libraries of their documents) was whether or not the Catholic Church EXISTED. OF COURSE it existed, with its bishops and priests and deacons and deaconesses, hermits, etc., just as it already did when Paul writes his letter to Timothy explaining the proper procedures for selecting a bishop. Notice that Paul makes no attempt to describe what a bishop IS. Everybody who was going to receive any of his letters already knew THAT. Paul was writing to a Church that was already Catholic. Doctrinally in ferment, perhaps, but already organized on lines familiar to us. Which is why there's no formal Constitution of the Church in the New Testament. Paul tells his readers who should be bishops and priests and deacons and deaconesses. He talks about The Lord's Table without explaining what it is. Etc. He didn't HAVE to, because he was writing to people who already knew what a bishop was, and a priest and deacon, and what the Lord's Table was, etc. Because they were already Catholic.


215 posted on 10/08/2005 9:08:56 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: radioman

"Might makes right!"

Isn't that what a belief in God is all about?


216 posted on 10/08/2005 9:19:14 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13
there have been bishops of said church self-consciously CALLING IT THAT in documents dating from before 100 AD

Could you reference those documents for me? I can't find them.

The word "Catholic" is Greek and means universal. The only first, or second, century references to "catholic" I am aware of are the writings of Greek Montanists and they are called heretics by the Roman Church.
.
217 posted on 10/08/2005 9:25:18 AM PDT by radioman
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To: Vicomte13
Isn't that what a belief in God is all about?

I don't think so, but then again, I'm not a Christian.
.
218 posted on 10/08/2005 9:27:21 AM PDT by radioman
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To: radioman
The text of the Gospel of Thomas was not available when the KJV was done. The full Coptic text was discovered in the 1940s in a cache of Gnostic texts in Nag Hammadi, Egypt. Portions were also found in Greek among the Oxyrhynchus papyri (uncovered at Oxyrhynchus, Egypt, at the end of the 19th century, and known as P. Oxy. 1, P. Oxy. 654, and P. Oxy. 655). The Greek fragments were written in the 3rd century; the Coptic copy shortly before A.D. 350.

There is said to be a quotation from the Gospel of Thomas by St. Hippolytus in a work written between 222 and 235.

According to W. H. C. Frend, The Rise of Christianity, the Gospel of Thomas was probably written in Edessa, Syria, and shows strong Jewish influences. "Though it is penetrated by later Gnostic influences, there is a core of early (that is, first-century) material, probably Aramaic in origin." (p. 145)

For more on this text, see these sites:

www.gospelthomas.com
www.earlychristianwritings.com
www.cresourcei.org/thomas.html

219 posted on 10/08/2005 9:31:41 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: SmartCitizen
It isn't the church doing the taxing -it's the government.

Greedy evangelists lobbied for it.

Write your Congressman.

Talked to him in person. He supports tax money to churches.

I am against it by the way

Cool...I'll take you out of the fringe kook category!
.
220 posted on 10/08/2005 9:34:42 AM PDT by radioman
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