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To: Shortstop7; indcons

OK, it's been two days. And I've finally gotten to where I can talk with others to try to see how the conspiracy theories play out. And it still looks to me like the terrorist possibilities are tenous.

So, what would explain the facts as we know them while not pointing to a concerted islamic terrorist attack?

First, I stipulate the what I call "facts" are merely what has been reported, and may not be truthful. I can't know, I'm not conducting the investigation.


OK, we have a depressed, emotionally unstable student (father's report), who also is bright (reports, plus inference because he is an engineering student and junior, stupid people don't usually last that long in engineering).

We know people sometimes get mad at the world, and choose to commit suicide in a way that lashes back. For example, Columbine.

So, depressed student decides to blow himself up. Nobody flew planes into buildings until they flew planes into buildings, so the possibility that this is the first ever suicide by bomb doesn't bother me. Plus, if he wanted to take others with him this would be a good way to do so.

If you wanted to build a bomb, where would you go for information? Islamic web sites. So he downloads all the information he can find about islamic terrorism, since he's going to build a bomb.

He collects a lot of materials for bombs, and builds his bomb. The rest of the stuff remains in his residence, no surprise that there was more than he needed.

Maybe he's decided the students have mistreated him, or maybe it's random, but he decides it would be cool to take out the fans at the football game. He loads up and goes.

Then, either the increased security (reported here) prevented him from entering the stadium, or that was never his plan. He sits at the bench.

Maybe he is waiting for halftime knowing people will come out. Or maybe he has a change of heart and decides that he shouldn't kill anybody else.

So either he blows himself up on the bench when nobody else is close enough to be hurt, or he accidentally blows himself up while waiting.

If he had a backpack, the bomb squad would detonate it and find nothing. They would go to his residence and find the bomb-making equipment and the islamic terrorist information.

More on the islamic literature. Maybe he DID start hooking up with islamic sympathisers (he lived close by, and if he was mentally unstable they may have offered him an outlet for anger). Or maybe the islamist groups have an outreach program, and go door-to-door passing out literature, or they were handing it out on the street and he picked it up.

Or maybe he actually was swayed to believe america is the reason why he's depressed, and took it upon himself to blow up americans in a terrorist attack.

One thing is clear, after all. He DID make a bomb, he DID blow it up, and he COULD HAVE hurt others.

Now, what is not currently supported by any evidence is the belief this was a plot by al Qaeda, that this was part of a coordinated attack, that he has been working with a terror cell.

Why are the organizations investigating this attack? They have to -- it's a bomb blown up by a football stadium. You HAVE to investigate every lead. Just because we don't already KNOW he was part of a terror cell doesn't mean he wasn't. We have to make sure he wasn't. In a post 9/11 world we have to investigate things a lot more carefully.

But it is one thing having an open mind, conducting a thorough investigation, checking out possible terrorist ties.

NEIN on their web site says this was "definitely" a terrorist attack. That is too strong a statement for the facts as we know them. Our law enforcement needs to be careful not to overstate the case, or to cause needless panic.

So, I remain uncertain of either point of view. My opinion at this point is that this was not part of an ongoing plan by a terror cell. I think we will never know what his real motivations were, but on the other hand, if he was simply a depressed person wanting to kill himself, he STILL COMMITTED A TERRORIST ACT. So maybe that's why it looks like I am "backpeddling", when I am not.

My guess at this point? Depressed person commits suicide, after deciding against taking others with him. Used islamic sites to get bomb information, built bomb to take out others before changing his mind. I have no proof of this, and insufficient facts to be certain of this or other theories.


3,627 posted on 10/03/2005 6:56:37 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Peach

ping for my ranting....


3,632 posted on 10/03/2005 7:01:05 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

"More on the islamic literature. Maybe he DID start hooking up with islamic sympathisers (he lived close by, and if he was mentally unstable they may have offered him an outlet for anger)."

Bit of a reach, don't you think? He had Islamic literature? Not simply bomb making info? Well? He's part of Islam then. Blows self up. Allah akbar and all that. Simple.


3,633 posted on 10/03/2005 7:03:14 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March ("They'll have to basically rip my fingers from this porch." com/focus/bloggers/1483977/posts)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Thanks for the ping; his picture told me a LOT.

bbl


3,634 posted on 10/03/2005 7:03:27 AM PDT by Peach (Go Yankees!)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

I've been trying to find the source of the 'islamic web site' info regarding post 3627. No luck yet. Anyway, thank you for your summary, although I respectfully disagree with the conclusion, if the details are correct. FRegards....


3,691 posted on 10/03/2005 9:47:05 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March ("They'll have to basically rip my fingers from this porch." com/focus/bloggers/1483977/posts)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
Great job of logically sifting through the tons of valid and bogus "facts" of this case.

I have read almost every FRpost on this event starting almost immediately after the game. And I would like to make one or two observations that might steer some of the logical conclusions away from specific areas.

First, I have been to many many OU games in the past 40 years and the west side of the stadium is NOT where one would go to maximize the casualties during the halftime exodus. Where he was located would, in my opinion be one of the least traveled sectors during halftime. Most of the gathering areas are NE and SE.

Secondly, from what I know about Dreyling from some who know him, I don't think he fits into this equation. I'm told he does amateur pyrotechnics and had recently worked a local event. If he's anything like my kids he carries practically everything he owns in his back pack. Ask some of your local airport maintenance people how many handguns they find in trashcans and stuffed elsewhere from forgetful passengers who don't have time to go back to the car.

I'm not saying that H-III wasn't trying to be a homicide bomber against the halftime crowd or that Dreyling wasn't involved for sure. But from what I know first and second hand, I think time spent on those angles is probably wasted.
3,698 posted on 10/03/2005 10:13:18 AM PDT by darbymcgill
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