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So Who Is Right in Debate on Role of Global Warming?
NY Times ^ | 9/24/05 | Andrew C. Revkin

Posted on 09/23/2005 11:23:51 PM PDT by Crackingham

With an American city swamped by one great hurricane and then by another one less than a month later, with federal forecasters ticking down the annual list of 21 names for tropical storms at a record clip, it is no surprise that debate has flared over the role of global warming.

After all, one of the clearest signals that human actions have pushed recent warming beyond natural cycles is a measured buildup of heat in the world's oceans, and oceanic heat is the fuel that powers hurricanes.

The issue has been addressed from starkly different vantage points. For example, former Vice President Al Gore has conducted a continuing speaking tour on the need to cut heat-trapping pollution, while Senator James M. Inhofe, Republican of Oklahoma, has accused environmental campaigners of fomenting unfounded fears about human-driven warming.

So what is the state of the science behind the arguments over the message sent by Hurricanes Rita and Katrina?

What is clear is that an array of leading experts on oceans and climate agree that the tropical oceans have warmed in a way that is hard to attribute to anything other than overall warming of the climate from the buildup of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse-gas emissions.

It is also clear to many climate scientists and oceanographers that warmer oceans will eventually increase the intensity and rainfall of hurricanes, but not necessarily their frequency.

In fact, two recent studies of hurricanes, by different scientists using different methods, claimed to detect a big rise in hurricane intensity around the world over the last several decades.

But the authors of both analyses acknowledged that more data would be needed to confirm a link to human-caused warming.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: climate
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To: pepsionice
I doubt if any of those guys ever took a class in history or understand the implications of history.

Gone from the curriculum, along with Logic and Basic Science. Last Spring, when all the pine trees were blooming, my part of Wisconsin declared a *moderate air emergency*. Mostly, this was for the cities and mostly it was caused by an inversion that lasted just a few days during pollen season. A woman who teaches science to eighth graders was just beside herself, wondering why schools and all business were not canceled, since we were all at such risk. She never questioned that she had gone to work and then driven another eight miles out to my house. I mentioned pine pollen, showed her some photos that were being published from Alaska and other places of huge green pollen clouds descending on towns, mentioned why the Smokies are called smoky. She was amazed, stunned and uncomfortable, because it simply *had* to be automobiles and electric plants, etc. She made no distiction between urban and rural areas.

Forty years of agenda-driven education and media resulted in everyone who wanted to feel good about themselves planting acres of pine trees under government programs that give tax breaks for re-foresting former pastures/fields. We are encouraged in the same way to not log.

But trees are good. Technology is bad.
21 posted on 09/24/2005 2:12:20 AM PDT by reformedliberal (Bless our troops and pray for our nation.)
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To: pepsionice

Global warming could not have started that early, because Clinton was president since then.

"Scientific" analysis can prove "global warming" began at noon, 1-20-2001, Eastern time.


22 posted on 09/24/2005 3:33:12 AM PDT by tdscpa
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To: A message
NYT -- your paper is a disgrace... A DISGRACE to journalism.

Perhaps "Jurinalism" is the better word?

23 posted on 09/24/2005 3:37:43 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys - Can't drive, can't fly, can't ski, can't skipper a boat - But they know what's best.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

I reckon about 3% of the earths atmosphere is CO2, and only about 2% of that is generated from human sources.

I make that 0.06% of earth atmosphere.

If man made CO2 increases by 10% a year, that would increase the total CO2 as % of earth atmosphere by 0.006% each year.

Talk about vanishingly small numbers.


24 posted on 09/24/2005 3:38:18 AM PDT by plenipotentiary
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To: Crackingham

Of course liberals will hang their hats on this one:

What's really interesting is what Kerry Emanuel has to say on his own web page:


25 posted on 09/24/2005 4:08:52 AM PDT by StACase
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To: plenipotentiary

Dang,I was hoping a little more C02 would green up my lawn a little. looks like I'll still be adding nitrogen in the spring...


26 posted on 09/24/2005 4:18:35 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Crackingham
Total rubbish.


27 posted on 09/24/2005 4:20:45 AM PDT by montag813
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To: Crackingham
After all, one of the clearest signals that human actions have pushed recent warming beyond natural cycles is a measured buildup of heat in the world's oceans, and oceanic heat is the fuel that powers hurricanes.

What a dunce! Was it a clear signal the other times this happened? Nightfall.

28 posted on 09/24/2005 4:23:56 AM PDT by jimfree (Freep and Ye shall find.)
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To: Crackingham

I personally believe that hurricanes are changing their tactics and are no longer causing random disaster but are seeking areas and industries where humans are causing global warming and purposely going there to destroy them.


29 posted on 09/24/2005 4:24:32 AM PDT by aardvark1 (Eschew obfuscation.)
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To: Crackingham
Absolute total NONSENSE. Article posted on Sunspots this week explains it. "Global Warming" as a man made phenomenon is complete hysteric hogwash pushed for totalitarian Socialist political agenda NOT from any basis in science.
30 posted on 09/24/2005 4:28:09 AM PDT by MNJohnnie ("Don't get stuck on stupid, reporters.")
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To: plenipotentiary

Your off by a few decimal places.

The Earth's atmosphere is a thin layer of gases that surrounds the Earth. Its composed of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 0.9% argon, 0.03% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

From: http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/planets/earth/Atmosphere.shtml

But your point is even more apparent. 0.03% = 0.0003 or 3 parts out of 10,000..

And it's probably changed from 0.000297 to 0.0003 because of man.


31 posted on 09/24/2005 4:31:42 AM PDT by revtown
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To: revtown

Oops...

But then whats a few decimal places to your average climate scientist.

Thanks for pointing that out.


32 posted on 09/24/2005 4:41:26 AM PDT by plenipotentiary
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To: Crackingham

The NY Times' "scientists" are ignorant.

1) The hurricane activity cycle spans a period that is greater than "several decades". Looking for a trend within a portion of one period of a cycle is bad math/science.

2) Measuring a build-up of heat in the earth's oceans does not automatically mean human actions are responsible.

3) Politicians' opinions have nothing to do with the cause and effect of the earth's warming/cooling cycles.

4) Attributing warming to humans because they "cannot think of anything else" is the funniest theory that the NY Times could have said.

Here is a clue for the "scientists" at the NY Times. When an oven is set to 350° and the actual temperature climbs to 400°, do not blame the casserole: Check the thermostat and the HEATING ELEMENT.

If the planet is warming up, let's look at the SUN first. (Then we can talk about the insulation...)


33 posted on 09/24/2005 4:44:47 AM PDT by TaxRelief (Protest discrimination against real scientists at the MSM!)
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To: Congressman Billybob

NPR was saying the hurricane weather pattern cycles are more like 50-60 years, FWIW.


34 posted on 09/24/2005 4:48:52 AM PDT by TaxRelief (Protest discrimination against real scientists at the MSM!)
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To: aardvark1
I personally believe that hurricanes are changing their tactics and are no longer causing random disaster but are seeking areas and industries where humans are causing global warming and purposely going there to destroy them.

ROFLOL. You owe me a computer screen!

35 posted on 09/24/2005 4:52:25 AM PDT by TaxRelief (Protest discrimination against real scientists at the MSM!)
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To: Jeff Chandler

When you see "leading experts" read experts with government grants to prove global warming. Clinton handed out grants to people who would determine the results of his predetermined opinion.


36 posted on 09/24/2005 5:03:16 AM PDT by paguch
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To: doug from upland

Even he had to admit that SUVs were not causing that.


You never know what they're putting into those UFO's nowadays though.


37 posted on 09/24/2005 5:04:18 AM PDT by moog
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To: A message

evidence that Mars is warming, and Earth is warming and other planets are warming, then the cause is .... maybe the Sun.

It's actually the fire and brimstone that are expanding.


38 posted on 09/24/2005 5:06:37 AM PDT by moog
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To: aardvark1

I personally believe that hurricanes are changing their tactics and are no longer causing random disaster but are seeking areas and industries where humans are causing global warming and purposely going there to destroy them.

I think that Osama gets around in portable tornados myself.

One of my friend's favorite websites is infowars.com.


39 posted on 09/24/2005 5:09:40 AM PDT by moog
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To: calrighty
..........they want to keep their phony junk science do nothing jobs.

You forgot that most of those jobs are at taxpayers' expense.

40 posted on 09/24/2005 5:12:57 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (9-11 is your Peace Dividend)
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