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Intelligent designers down on Dover
The York Dispatch ^ | 9/20/2005 | CHRISTINA KAUFFMAN

Posted on 09/22/2005 6:53:07 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor

Theory's largest national supporter won't back district

The Dover Area School District and its board will likely walk into a First Amendment court battle next week without the backing of the nation's largest supporter of intelligent design.

The Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based nonprofit that describes itself as a "nonpartisan policy and research organization," recently issued a policy position against Dover in its upcoming court case.

John West, associate director of Discovery's Center for Science & Culture, calls the Dover policy "misguided" and "likely to be politically divisive and hinder a fair and open discussion of the merits of intelligent design."

Eleven parents filed a federal suit last December, about two months after the school board voted to include a statement about intelligent design in its ninth-grade biology classes.

Intelligent design says living things are so complicated they had to have been created by a higher being, that life is too complex to have developed through evolution as described by biologist Charles Darwin.

The parents, along with Americans United for the Separation of Church and State and the American Civil Liberties Union, said the board had religious motives for putting the policy in place.

The non-jury trial is expected to start in Harrisburg Sept. 26.

No surprise: The school board's attorney, Richard Thompson, said he isn't surprised the Discovery Institute has distanced itself from the school board's stance.

"I think it's a tactical decision they make on their own," said Thompson, top attorney with Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center, a law firm that specializes in cases related to the religious freedom of Christians.

Though the Discovery Institute promotes the teaching of intelligent design, it has been critical of school boards that have implemented intelligent design policies, Thompson said.

Discovery Institute's Web site offers school board members a link to a video titled "How to Teach the Controversy Legally," referring to the organization's opinion that there is a controversy over the validity of the theory of evolution.

The video doesn't specifically mention teaching intelligent design.

But Discovery Institute is the leading organization touting intelligent design research and supporting the scientists and scholars who want to investigate it.

Dover is the only school district that Discovery has publicly spoken out against. West said that's because they mandated the policy. Discovery Institute supports teaching intelligent design, but not requiring it through a school board policy.

He said there are few proponents of intelligent design who support the stand Dover's board has taken because the district has required the reading of a statement that mentions intelligent design and directs students to an intelligent design textbook.

"They really did it on their own and that's unfortunate," West said.

The "bad policy" has given the ACLU a reason to try to "put a gag order" on intelligent design in its entirety, he said.

Discovery also spoke out against Pennsylvania legislators who wanted to give school boards the option of mandating the teaching of intelligent design alongside evolution.

Avoiding politics: Teaching intelligent design is not unconstitutional, but the institute doesn't support the Dover school board's stand because it doesn't want intelligent design to become a political issue, said Casey Luskin, program officer in the Public Policy and Legal Affairs department at the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture.

He said the Discovery Institute is "not trying to hinder their case in court," but the organization wants intelligent design to be debated by the scientific community, not school boards.

Lawyer: Won't hinder case: Thompson said the Discovery Institute's noninvolvement in the trial won't hinder Dover's case because "the judge is going to look at the policy ... not who is in favor of it on the outside."

But the institute has been a hindrance to the school district's attempts to find "scientific" witnesses to testify about intelligent design, Thompson said.

Though Discovery representatives said they have never been in support of Dover's policy, Thompson said the organization's unwillingness to get involved in the trial became evident after it insisted that some of its fellows -- who were lined up to testify -- have their own legal representation, instead of the Thomas More Center, which bills itself as "The Sword and Shield for People of Faith."

Some of the Discovery Institute's intelligent design supporters backed out of testifying, even after Thompson told them they could have their own legal representation if they wanted, Thompson said.

"It was very disappointing" that the institute would prevent its members from testifying, Thompson said.

But he still found some willing Discovery fellows to testify that intelligent design is not a religious movement: Michael Behe from Lehigh University and Scott Minnich from the University of Idaho.

West said Discovery fellow Charles Thaxton is also slated to testify.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: allcrevoallthetime; anothercrevothread; crevolist; crevorepublic; enoughalready; evolution; itsgettingold; makeitstop
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To: JohnnyM
we can observe gravity in action.

No, we observe the end result of what we've theorized as gravity in action. We can't claim certainty on what, exactly, caused what we observe but we can claim to have a good explanation behind it.

We have yet to observe a macro-evolutionary event or creation.

Just as we can observe the end-result of what we call gravitational theory, we can observe the end-result of what we call evolution theory. It is no different, and the only thing you are doing here is trying to redefine gravity to be something far more simplistic than what it really is.
141 posted on 09/22/2005 11:26:05 AM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Oztrich Boy
"Unbeliever! Persecute!"


142 posted on 09/22/2005 11:28:04 AM PDT by Vive ut Vivas
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To: JohnnyM
I dont think you can get much clearer than "God said let there be light and there was light."

But I will admit this is on faith by His Word.

Do you also accept Chaldean mythology, from which much of the Book of Genesis was plagiarized, as His Word?

143 posted on 09/22/2005 11:29:40 AM PDT by Antonello
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To: Vive ut Vivas

Even as no one can deny you, no one can refuse you.


144 posted on 09/22/2005 11:31:57 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Disclaimer -- this information may be legally false in Kansas.)
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To: Vive ut Vivas
And perhaps I can have many Consorts. I'm flexible, I'm a swinger.

Conversion complete. Where do I sign?

145 posted on 09/22/2005 11:33:05 AM PDT by longshadow
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To: Antonello
nope.

JM
146 posted on 09/22/2005 11:33:12 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: Dimensio
until science can observe a cell to complex organism evoltionary path in the lab, than it is just faith.

The idea that observing a change in allele frequency and then presuming that this is the process for evolving a cell into a human without observation is faith.

You can't observe it. You cant test it in a lab. All you got is a bunch of bones and educated guessing. It is faith.

I can admit my belief is faith, why is it so hard for you to admit the same.

JM
147 posted on 09/22/2005 11:37:30 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: SolarisRocks
Genesis 1 is not a why. It is a how.

JM
148 posted on 09/22/2005 11:38:32 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: longshadow

No signature needed; just the typical conversion rituals.

So, am I doing better on this whole authority thing? I've got, like, three converts. It's a good start I think.


149 posted on 09/22/2005 11:39:58 AM PDT by Vive ut Vivas
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To: JohnnyM

It is a What. It says what God did, it doesn't say HOW he did it.


150 posted on 09/22/2005 11:40:14 AM PDT by SolarisRocks
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To: Vive ut Vivas
"Unbeliever! Persecute!"

You know, for a Godess, you've got great taste in films....

151 posted on 09/22/2005 11:41:49 AM PDT by longshadow
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To: PatrickHenry
Even as no one can deny you, no one can refuse you.

I do have one request, however, and that's the giving up of spaghetti. It is not Pleasing To Me.
152 posted on 09/22/2005 11:42:54 AM PDT by Vive ut Vivas
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To: wallcrawlr
You can keep pounding your drum that the Bible is simply mans interpretation and I'll counter with the Word of God is the Word of God.

The words on the page are the words on the page, but how one understands them is a matter of interpretation. You, not untypically, assume that your reading is the only one that is not an interpretation -- and that everyone else's reading is errant.

Why do you feel the need to mock others?

Pointing out that your interpretation of scripture is, in fact, an interpretation constitutes mockery? My, you're sensitive.

153 posted on 09/22/2005 11:47:05 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: longshadow

And at my House of Worship, I have the entire TV series on DVD. This is how we do.


154 posted on 09/22/2005 11:47:33 AM PDT by Vive ut Vivas
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To: Vive ut Vivas
But my point is that if you believed my claim, I would question your sanity. (Or reward your devoted followership.) There is nothing to back up my claim other than that I said it. Just because I said it doesn't make it true. Likewise, just because the Bible claims it is the word of God, doesn't mean it is.

No no no! This is where you're supposed to threaten hellfire and damnation on anyone who doesn't believe, in order to frighten them into submission.

What do they teach in goddess school these days...

155 posted on 09/22/2005 11:51:32 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: JohnnyM
until science can observe a cell to complex organism evoltionary path in the lab, than it is just faith.

Until science can observe all matter and its interactions with other matter in the universe, gravity is just faith.
156 posted on 09/22/2005 11:52:15 AM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Vive ut Vivas; longshadow
I do have one request, however, and that's the giving up of spaghetti. It is not Pleasing To Me.

Ah. The Goddess is on the Atkins diet. Ir shall be as you wish, Domina.

157 posted on 09/22/2005 11:53:00 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Disclaimer -- this information may be legally false in Kansas.)
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To: Vive ut Vivas
False goddess, me? Never! Let them eat cake!

Viva Vive ut Vivas! ;o)

158 posted on 09/22/2005 11:58:09 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: Vive ut Vivas
Everyone gets the day off and free pizza.

I'll take the day off but, do I go to hell if I don't eat the pizza?

159 posted on 09/22/2005 11:58:37 AM PDT by shuckmaster
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To: malakhi
What do they teach in goddess school these days...

First, I make 'em trust me. Then I have my way with them. But you didn't hear it from me!
160 posted on 09/22/2005 12:00:11 PM PDT by Vive ut Vivas
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