[Alien Gunfighter]

Does it matter? No. Iraq is going to collapse like a house of cards once the US leaves, either from internal strife or from its "Muslim brothers" invading and destroying all that has been accomplished. Iraq is a lost cause.

[MNJohnnie]

The new Iraqi constitution as presented to Parliament is not the outcome of long-term social and political processes leading to a social contract

So was ours you moron. What is it about the more education a person gets, the more cut off from reality they become? What this idiot fails to consider is you have to start SOME where. It is a work in progress just like a Democratic Iraq.

[agere_contra]

Iraq might well break into three self-governing provinces: rich and prosperous democratic Kurdistan, rich and prosperous democratic Shiite-land and the poor, demented, oil-less Sunni Side of the Street. And that would still be a total victory for Bush's foreign policy: democracy in the ME.

[hubbubhubbub]

Does ours matter anymore?

[Valin]

The birth-pangs of Iraq's new constitution are symptomatic of the deep crisis afflicting the country, and even if an agreed document is eventually produced, it may not only fail to resolve the country's underlying problems but could actually make them worse.

---

Four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth upon this continent a new nation: conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war. . .testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated. . . can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war.

We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate. . .we cannot consecrate. . . we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here.

It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us. . .that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion. . . that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain. . . that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. . . and that government of the people. . .by the people. . .for the people. . . shall not perish from the earth.

A. Lincoln (dead white guy)

---

Aug 18 1920 Tennessee became the 36th state to ratify the 19th Amendment to the Constitution, which guaranteed the right of all American women to vote.

[Valin]

In fact, no Iraqi constitution ever became the authoritative framework to regulate political processes or determine the country's identity and orientation. Instead, they all served only one purpose: to legitimize the regime in power.

Today there is no "regime" in power.....The Iraqis PEOPLE will have the final say in what this constitution says.

[Valin]

A Conversation with Ibrahim al-Jaafari (long piece, but worth the time)
Council on Foreign Relations ^ | PRIME MINISTER IBRAHIM JAAFARI


http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1474090/posts

http://www.cfr.org/publication/8203/conversation_with_ibrahim_aljaafari.html?jsessionid=d9a919379c32766b4dc800f6ceee4358


PRIME MINISTER IBRAHIM JAAFARI: I greet through you the American nation and all that it has given to the Iraqi people and to the world during this difficult phase. It stood, America stood by the Iraqi people in helping it to overcome all difficulties and trials.

Ever since Saddam came to power, from 1962 to 2003, and despite the geographic distance between the people, between the land of Iraq and the land of America, although I’m sure you have followed very carefully through the channels and the media the reality of what is happening in Iraq. And the education of that which has lived on the ground and he who lives in Iraq and witnesses what’s going on is always different to people who only hear about what’s going on. And many politicians who come to Iraq see a vision and an image that’s totally different to what the media portrays.

I would like to talk to you during this period and take questions as well. I would like to talk about where Iraq was before and where is it now, and what is our vision of the future for Iraq.

What has happened in Iraq during this short period of what has taken place are many steps and important steps in Iraq. First of all, Iraq has witnessed a qualitative change and freedom which have taken place in Iraq. At the time when all that was in Iraq was one dictatorship, one leader of a state, who was also the leader of the party and a military leader as well, and the person who was the head of the media. And this is how a dictatorship was encompassed in the character of Saddam Hussein and ruled with an iron fist.

Whereas today there are so many parties, political parties, and many political gatherings and many political figures and a diversity of media that speaks freely. We do not claim that we have reached full maturity and this is the last—we do not claim that this is the last step in democracy. However, despite the short time that has passed, we have strived and accomplished tremendous achievements.

There is a quality of change in the participation of women in Iraq today. Today parliament has over 80 women, members of parliament, out of 300—out of 275. There are, therefore, 81 members of parliament who participate in the National Assembly. There are six ministers in the cabinet, and there is one woman who will be deputy prime minister with me in the cabinet.

And this, even in your society, is a record. It is true that women participate more in this society. However, you must agree with me that there is a qualitative improvement and increase in the role of women in Iraqi society. And when I say this, I do not mean that women only attend just to be present. Indeed, they are very active in society, participating fully in every aspect of political life and every aspect of all other lives, all other aspects of life in Iraq.

The Iraqi woman has strived and sacrificed, and many women have been executed by Saddam Hussein and have sacrificed and given a lot for the cause of freedom. And many have been forced to go into exile, and many have disappeared as a result of the oppression of Saddam Hussein. Whereas today, Iraqi women participate in a real way in the political process, in the parliament, and also take a role in the government. And we are certain that the Iraq parliament reflects the makeup of the Iraqi people. The demographic changes and variety in Iraq are tremendous.

All political factions are available. All different religions are available. There is a variety of political ideology. Sectarian and religious varieties are all available in the small size, the area of Iraq. This variety has been expressed in the government and in the parliament. As far as the government, it has been recently formed in the last two months and has the whole variety of all sections of Iraqi society.