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To: combat_boots

The Assassins were not suicidal. They were killers. I did read up on them. The Koran is ambivalent (since it places no inherent value on human life anyway, I suppose it could be considered pro-suicide). I found nothing in the Hadith to support suicide.


20 posted on 08/28/2005 12:38:59 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: LS

The Assassins did not routinely kill themselves as part of their attacks.

However, there are numerous stories of their leaders emphasizing the fearlessness of their men to visitors by having them successively jump off cliffs, stab themselves, etc.


28 posted on 08/28/2005 12:48:57 PM PDT by Restorer (Liberalism: the auto-immune disease of democracies.)
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To: LS

On the Assassins: the order was not suicidal, nor was the Old Man of the Mountain, but suicide was a possibility, depending on the initiate:

"The initiate, after being knocked out by a powerful potion mixed with hashish, would be carried into the garden. When he awoke from his slumber, he would be greeted by a host beautiful teenage girls (houris), who sang and danced and played lovely instruments for him. As he drifted into an ecstatic daze, the girls would go to work on the initiate, giving him a full-body tongue massage, while one girl performed oral sex on him. Eventually, the bedazzled young man would climax into the girl's mouth "as softly and slowly and blissfully as a single snowflake falling." (Robert Anton Wilson, from Prometheus Rising) No wonder Hasan could demand absolute loyalty from his followers, no questions asked . . .

This was only a small part of Hasan's system, which was divided into seven degrees. The Hashishins combined both the exoteric (communicated, "God's Law") and esoteric (subjective, mystical) doctrines of Islam. Sabbah was a noted alchemist, and a student of Sufism, so part of the initiatic curriculum for the future Hashishins involved mastering occult methods for reaching higher planes of consciousness. Of course, they were also taught how to properly kill a man using poison or a dagger. Initiates were trained to learn multiple languages, as well as the dress and manners of merchants, monks and soldiers. Moreover, they were taught to fake beliefs and devotion to every major religion of that era. In this way, an Assassin could pretend to be anyone from a well-to-do merchant to a Sufi mystic, a Christian, or a common soldier.

The Hashishin Order was set up much like your traditional bureaucratic organization. At the top of the hierarchy sat Hasan, the Old Man of the Mountain, who preached absolute devotion to a transcendental God. Below him were the grand priories (enlightened mystics), the propagandists, and finally the fidais, who were the lowest ranking Hashishins. The fidais were self-sacrificers (called "the destroying angels") who were willing to commit any atrocity their master demanded of them, including suicide. They dressed in white tunics with red sashes: colours that represented innocence and blood."

See: http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id985/pg1/index.html

"They perfected the strategy of suicide missions..."
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030105/spectrum/main11.htm


On the Koran/supporting Suras/Hadith/Fatwas, etc:
Read Infiltration by Paul Sperry for more on the Koran, but here's a few Suras:

"[A] martyr’s privileges are guaranteed by Allah; forgiveness with the first gush of his blood, he will be shown his seat in paradise, he will be decorated with the jewels of belief, married off to the beautiful ones, protected from the test in the grave, assured security in the day of judgment, crowned with the crown of dignity, a ruby of which is better than this whole world and its entire content, wedded to seventy-two of the pure Houris (beautiful women of Paradise) and his intercession on the behalf of seventy of his relatives will be accepted.

This hadith source that bin Laden cites puts together different Quranic passages describing Islamic heaven, complete with beautiful virgins (Suras 44:51-56; 52:17-29; 55:46-78), with those describing the immediate reward of heaven for jihadist martyrs (Suras 61:10-12; 4:74; 9:111). (For multiple translations of these “virgin verses” and other sensuous descriptions, go to this site and type in the references: 44:51-56; 52:17-29; 55:46-78.)

Where does this evil doctrine come from? The answer to the question is that Khamenei and bin Laden are not the deepest sources of inspiration for martyrdom bombers. Sad to report, these two evil-doers, as well the faceless human bombs, get their inspiration from the Quran itself.

Suras 61:10-12, 4:74, and 9:111 guarantee Islamic martyrs heaven in an economic bargain. Indeed, these three references explicitly use words that connote buying and selling and signing a contract of sale, and the currency behind the deals is death by martyrdom.

Deducing claims from these verses and using the logic of evil, suicide-homicide bombers with modern and private weapons accept this bargain and throw themselves into battle against disciples of the Great Satan (the US) and the little Satan (Israel). Derived from these verses, the martyrs’ death-acts show their total surrender to Allah; they count their lives as nothing compared with their devotion to him and security in achieving heaven. So Allah is pleased—it is a done deal."

See: http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4297&search=arlandson

Also read up on 12ers: http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spring05/Shullick/twelver.htm

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/77813p-71645c.html

And "Heritage: the martyrdom of Hallaj...

The day was April 19,.......Hallaj even beseeched God to let him die accursed. He wanted to die for his brutalized, cruel, diminished , decadent and over religious Muslim
brothers even to become a Kafir, an infidel, to be put to death in order to arouse and unite all the Muslims - to make violance, evil and the unjust apparent .

Perhaps he was ahead of his time, and knowingly happened to step into a domain where blind faith is all what matters. Bustami is right when he says that Hallaj had done away with the difference that exists between a
Saint and a Prophet.

Whether it be Rumi or Khayyam or Iqbal, Hallaj and his ecstatic mysticism has remained an abiding theme of their poetry and philosophy.

"Tu mun shudi; Mun to shudam; Ta kas na go-ed tu deegri,"
(Translation) I want to be You and You me, so that no one is able to say that You are another Being.

For more information on Punishments for apostates in Islam go to :

http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/ilaw/l5721efc.htm "

http://yangtze.cs.uiuc.edu/~jamali/sindh/sindh-l/archive/her2/msg00602.html

Finally,.......

http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/ez/isl/0-sbm/IslRulingOnPermiss.html

"The Islamic Ruling On The Permissibility Of Martyrdom Operations " Many viewpoints discussed, including opposing.


58 posted on 08/28/2005 3:12:07 PM PDT by combat_boots (Dug in and not budging an inch. NOT to be schiavoed, greered, or felosed as a patient)
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