NYT: Iraq Veterans Question 'Over There' - 'I don't think it addresses real issues of a soldier'

New York Times ^ | August 24, 2005 | DAVID CARR

[OESY]

...Through the Web and various veterans groups, The New York Times contacted more than a dozen soldiers, all of whom had been on active duty in Iraq and have since returned. They had a variety of opinions on the war they served in, but were almost universally negative about the show that attempts to depict it....

When Steven Bochco's "Over There" began last month, many military blogs immediately began pumping round after round of ack-ack into it, suggesting that it is both opportunistic and clueless....

"There are a few bad war movies and TV shows, but this one takes the cake," said a recent post to Boots on the Ground, a blog written by an Army soldier currently serving in Iraq (bootsonground.blogspot.com). "If the inaccuracies they made in this new show was to keep the real enemy from watching and knowing our real tactics, then they did a SUPERB job."...

You could understand why Mr. Bochco feels a bit fragged. He set out to render visible a war, one that has produced thousands of dead and wounded, that goes conveniently unnoticed by most Americans. He has never been to Iraq, but hired several consultants who had served, in order to get an authentic look and feel....

"Over There" has received its share of favorable reviews. But after a brisk start- the series garnered 4.1 million viewers for its first show, making it the most watched cable program on the night it ran- it then lost almost half its audience in the second week, dropping to 2.6 million viewers....

"The reviews from G.I.'s I've seen are 100 percent negative; there is no array," said John Harriman, a Vietnam veteran and author who created the Mudville Gazette, an online community of soldiers who support the war and those fighting it (www.mudvillegazette.com)....

[MAD-AS-HELL]

Bochco was right when he said his show would be non political, but he didn't say it would be accurate in portraying the military. During war time, especially when we were attacked on our homeland, it's not a smart move to mock the military and it's brave soldiers who are risking their lives to make sure Steven Bitchco and creative team has the freedom produce crap.

Btw, does anyone know the ratings for the third showing of Over There? I can't seem to find it.

[ops33]

I wouldn't be surprized if most of the negative comments on this show came from the enlisted. They recognize BS when they see it!!

[PeteB570]

"hired several consultants"

That covers a lot of ground on military operations. There are experts on this and experts on that but very few experts on most things. And no experts on everything.

[DesignerChick]

"He set out to render visible a war, one that has produced thousands of dead and wounded, that goes conveniently unnoticed by most Americans."
WTF?

[Sunshine Sister]

I can't remember the last time I heard the term "ack ack" used. It brought back many memories.

[new yorker 77]

If you consider our troops a bunch of "DEAD FAILURES", you will love 'Over There'.

If I ever I feel like urinating and defecating on troops, I'll tune in.

Until then, I will avoid it.

[WoodstockCat]

saw previews for "Jarhead" before watching "The Great Raid" last night..looks like a generation X version of "Platoon" in the making.
The former U.S. marine from WWII Guam didn't think much of "Jarhead", branding it revisionist history.

[Timm]

Save yourself reading the whole article. Here's a one-sentence summary. The Times doesn't like the series because it doesn't go after Bush.

In fact, one might even get the appalling idea that brave American servicemen and women are doing some good in Iraq. Of course, that possibility is too infuriating for the Times to sit idle. Hence the "expose" of the plot details of a cable t.v. show.

[msnimje]

Every time this show airs, it takes a little bit more away from the great work Bochco has done in the past.
He is ruining his own legacy in an attempt to make the US military look bad.

[Crush T Velour]

There are some moments to recommend this show. The episodes with the suicide bombers who get shot at the checkpoint and the questioning of the terrorist is a good example (although I thought the ending where the barn was bombed was not believable).

The problem with the show is two fold:
1) It uses unrealistic situations to create a phony drama. Doing portrays servicemen as "alone out there", sent by an uncaring administration and uninvolved commanders. Servicemen are right when they feel that such phony drama is unnecessary. They face plenty of real danger all the time. And such a portrayal

2) Waaaaaay to much time spent on the wounded soldier (not that his would not have made a good show separately on its own). Why does Bochco do it? For the same reason the comic strip "Doonesbury" does it, and it is *not* unpolitical.

Bochco should have picked: Either produce a genuine tribute to the troops serving in Iraq, or story about a wounded soldier struggling back to his feet, or an anti-war movie that portrays the Iraq operations as illegal and the actors as loveable thugs...sort of a Sopranos in Iraq.

He tried to do all that at the same time with some phony drama thrown in and got an unwatchable show.

[randog]

"hired several consultants..."

Watch for the episode where the lead character sails up the Mekong River into Cambodia on Christmas Day.

[OldFriend]

Bochco was the commencement speaker at my son's university.

This was years ago.....he was going along just fine until he went into a rant against Jesse Helms.

Nuff said!

[speed_addiction]

Bochco was right when he said his show would be non political, but he didn't say it would be accurate in portraying the military.

While rife with inaccuracies in all things dealing with the events which a light infantry squad faces in wartime, it has pretty much stayed nonpolitical. There is one character that somewhat voices a contrary view, but even so, it is through the eyes of a young man who is an idealist and is somewhat overwhelmed by the events surrounding him.

The sergeant in charge of the squad on which the series centers is portrayed as somewhat disgruntled at having had his tour extended by does not shirk away from doing his mission. While he is a bit of a firebreathing, kick-your-soldiers-in-the-ass NCO, he does care about his soldiers and gets irate when they do something stupid. The second episode in which they were manning a roadblock and his soldiers would not stay away from a shot up car brought this out. It seemed that at every moment he had to keep ordering his young troops away from the car because their curiosity kept gettting the best of them. It brought back a memory or two of my own dealings with knuckleheaded, curious privates.

While as far a good portrayal of proper military procedure it is a disaster ("Tour of Duty" was dozens of times better technically), "Over There" has not been critical of the war. Even the interegation episode did not show an Iraqi prisoner being trully abused, mostly just "vigorously" interogated. The show is not as left leaning as I had thought it would be.


What We Are About To Do Here Is What The Good Lord Would Call A Cleansing of the Wicked. I Call It A Good Old Fashioned Texas Ass Kicking.

[sportutegrl]

Every time this show airs, it takes a little bit more away from the great work Bochco has done in the past.

Are you referring to LA Law?

[Airborne1986]

"While as far a good portrayal of proper military procedure it is a disaster"

I also find the show entertaining but very unrealistic. In the last episode, the squad (-) was trying to confirm that a person in a house was a terrorist spotter for an enemy mortar. They spent a lot of time wrestling with the morale dilemma of killing the suspect without conclusive proof. But, they never searched the house that the suspect was thought to be spotting from. Also, the whole mission was done at the direction of a quirky general who was obsessed with getting "American toilets" into the basecamp. The suggestion was that the general was risking his men's lives for toilets and, while not really political, seemed to be critical of operations there. All that being said, I have the show season-passed on my TEEVO.

[msnimje]

Are you referring to LA Law?

HA! No, Hill Street Blues.

[speed_addiction]

Also, the whole mission was done at the direction of a quirky general who was obsessed with getting "American toilets" into the basecamp. The suggestion was that the general was risking his men's lives for toilets and, while not really political, seemed to be critical of operations there. All that being said, I have the show season-passed on my TEEVO.

Well I did have a Battallion Commander that would have appeared to have been this way, in reality he was not. He would have had the greater mission (getting the convoy through safely) in mind, but would have obsessed in front of us over something trivial.


What We Are About To Do Here Is What The Good Lord Would Call A Cleansing of the Wicked. I Call It A Good Old Fashioned Texas Ass Kicking.