Good fences make good neighbors. BTW, we should be building TWO of these in America. One on our northern border and one on our southern.
Posted on 08/15/2005 6:44:28 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
ORLANDO, Fla., Aug. 13 (Reuters) - The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America on Saturday agreed to launch a campaign for peace between Israel and the Palestinians that Jewish advocates said could be seen in the Arab world as evidence of a growing condemnation of Israel by U.S. Protestants.
The resolution, titled "Peace Not Walls" was approved 668 to 269 at the biennial assembly in Orlando, Florida, of the sixth largest U.S. Christian denomination, and church leaders said a campaign for peace had become urgent in light of the Israeli security barrier under construction on Palestinian land.
Before the vote, Bishop Munib Younan, representing the denomination's sister Lutheran church in Palestine, told the 1,108 assembly members that his congregation had been split by the wall and church attendance was dropping.
"The future of the Palestinian (Lutheran) church is at stake because the current conditions are causing our children to leave in increasing numbers," Younan said via telephone.
Some critics of the resolution warned that the world might hear only the catchy title, which spotlights what Israel considers an essential defensive barrier against terrorism, without understanding the nuances of the church campaign.
"They're creating a religious document, but when it gets to the Mideast, people are reading a political document," said Dexter Van Zile of the Boston-based David Project, an Israeli advocacy group. "The Arab public is going to see 'another church is against Israel.'"
The Lutheran strategy stops short of recent moves by the 2.4-million-member Presbyterian Church (USA) to divest from Israel. The Evangelical Lutheran Church has about 5 million members.
But it calls on congregations and church agencies to consider, among prayer, advocacy and other steps, "stewarding financial resources -- both U.S. tax dollars and private funds -- in ways that support the quest for a just peace in the Holy Land."
It follows on the heels of similar action by the 1.3-million-member United Church of Christ.
The Lutherans voted for the resolution after hearing from Rabbi Eric Yoffie, president of the Union for Reform Judaism, who urged the assembly to "not minimize the impact of terror and do not demonize or isolate Israel, as if somehow she alone were responsible for the current conflict."
Breaking news:
ELCA Leadership Clueless...
Water is wet...
Ice is cold...
...
I have to believe that most of the people in the pews just do not know what these Kumbaya-singing dingbats are up to. A few of us are refusing to surrender our church to the loonies, but it is an uphill fight. Being insulted by non-ELCA FReepers does not make it any easier.
Correct, these sects leaders are not the faithful but the nominal. They are to be counted among the enemy. But I hasten to add that sect leadership doesn't represent the entire body of its followers. It is important that believing Christians vote with the feet and pocketbooks.
I appreciate that you are tring to fight for your church, but I just don't see how you will get them to reverse the liberal theology of the last 30 years.
..................
Well, let's look at that.
E-Evangelical; I'm not sure that fits. As a group their numbers continue to dwindle with fewer and fewer people clamoring to arrive early to get the prime rear of the church pews. Some congregations may be doing well or even growing; some may even be preaching the Gospel rather than tickling ears. But as an organization the numbers tell the story - few are being evangelized. C-Church; far too many think the church is the building. I suspect this is even more prevalent in congregations where they don't even understand the gravity of many of those wonderful hymns they are singing all the way through every verse. The church is the people (see "evangelical", above). A-America; let’s just not even go there.
OK, here is what we are left with that seems to apply - " ". Perhaps the solution is to change the acronym. How about the "Exhausting Liturgical Cacophony of Agnostics"?
At least there were enough bishops with their heads screwed on straight to shoot down the "report on human sexuality" ten years ago; I sadly expect that the ELCA has continued sliding farther down the slope since then.
It's the leadership of these Protestant groups. The members are more normal
Luther's Thurmerlebnis (experience in the tower) in the original German (I'm sure you can get the reference online and use Google's translation tools - however inept - to get to the gist.) In additiion to several references expressing the centrality of the Devil to Luther's theology (filth, blackness) he states a specific fear that he(Lucifer) will be thrown into his anus where he belongs.
Real pathos.
As I recall, in the OT the people were often provided with leadership based on their hearts and behaviors.
Good on ya! Thanks for the clarification. FReepers want to place blame and responsibility correctly. Some factions of major denominations are going nuts and giving all members a bad name.
Good grief, another Lutheran lunacy. These folks have never read their Bible or know how God feels about Israel, the apple of His eye. Touch Israel, folks, and you are doomed.
First Gaza, then the West Bank, then Jerusalem. Then GOD...
He won't let this go on for long. Michael, the Archangel is the protector of Israel and we're gonna see some action when they divide Jerusalem. Hang onto your hats.
"...Martin Luther is spinning in his grave and the door on the Roman Church at Worms has fallen down..."
BuHuHaHa! I doubt that. Martin Luther was a fanatic anti-Semite. In his essay "The jews and their lies" he was standing for the following positions:
(1) Burn down all synagogues.
(2) Burn down jewish houses.
(3) Take away jewish scripures.
(4) Prohibit all forms of jewish service. Kill all rabbis who break this law
(5) Take away the right to move freely on the streets for jews.
(6) Take away the right to take interest rates for jews.
(7) Make all jews working so hard on the fields that sweat shall ran down their noses (that is written in very funny German - Luther had great oratory) :-)
BTW - The fact, that Luther was a stauch jew-hater made it easy for Hitler to gain broad support from the Lutheran Church (Evangelische Kirche) in Germany during the 30ties. Luther belonged to those who opened the intellectual way to the "Kirstallnacht". He was a complex person with many different faces that made some fundamental faults, although he pushed Europe into modern thinking and modern times. He had his merits but he was for sure no saint. Rather a brave fighter for his truth. If you want to read a part of the text of "von den Juden und Ihren Lügen - the jews and their lies" in the original:
(the Numbers mark the positions of the english summary above)
"(1)Erstlich, das man jre Synagoga oder Schule mit feur anstecke und, was nicht verbrennen will, mit erden überheufe und beschütte, das kein Mensch ein stein oder schlacke davon sehe ewiglich. Und solches sol man thun, unserm Herrn und der Christenheit zu ehren damit Gott sehe, das wir Christen seien.
(2)Zum anderen, das man auch jre Heuser des gleichen zerbreche und zerstöre, Denn sie treiben eben dasselbige drinnen, das sie in jren Schülen treiben. Dafur mag man sie etwa unter ein Dach oder Stall thun, wie die Zigeuner, auff das sie wissen, sie seien nicht Herren in unserem Lande...
(3)Zum dritten, das man jnen nehme all jre Betbüchlein und Thalmudisten, darin solche Abgötterey, lügen, fluch und lesterung geleret wird.
(4)Zum vierten, das man jren Rabinen bey leib und leben verbiete, hinfurt zu leren...
(5)Zum fünften, das man die Jüden das Geleid und Straße gantz und gar auffhebe...
(6) Zum sechsten, das man jnen den Wucher verbiete und neme jnen alle barschafft und kleinot an Silber und Gold, und lege es beiseit zu verwaren...
(7)Zum siebenden, das man den jungen, starcken Jüden und Jüdin in die Hand gebe flegel, axt, karst, spaten, rocken, spindel und lasse sie jr brot verdienen im schweis der nasen..."
(Martin Luther, Von den Juden und ihren Lügen)
P.S. To me it is a shame that the Lutheran churches never really worked on their dark past. I found out that many of their worshippers do not even know about it. The new film about Martin Luther i.e. gave us just a sugarcoated picture. Of course Luther was right in reference to the catholic church and their selling of indulgences, but he had for sure his human deficits towards women or jews.
are these the same ones that want Evangelical Homosexuals in the Clergy???
When the Lutherans deal with their own, very public, mess, then they can criticize Israel's efforts to keep itself safe.
So? A lot of people were superstititous and ignorant about such things at that time. Not just Luther.
A little nutty, but not as bad as burning 'heretics'.
I'm in agreement in wishing these stupid news agencies would quit writing generic headlines like "U.S. Lutherans" and specify the denomination (in this case, ELCA). That said, I'd like to add one more clarification for the record: the ELCA was not a breakaway branch of the American Lutheran Church (ALC).
I was raised in an ALC congregation; to my knowledge, the old ALC formally ceased to exist as of January 1, 1988. Instead, the ELCA was the result of a merger of the ALC, LCA and AELC (see below). If I'm reading this correctly, it was the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches (AELC) that had been formed by a group that had broken off from the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS). It's easy to get lost in this denominational alphabet soup, but here is a summary from Wikipedia:
"The ELCA formally came into existence on January 1, 1988, creating the largest Lutheran church body in the United States. The Church is a result of a merger between the Lutheran Church in America (LCA), The American Lutheran Church (ALC) and the Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches (AELC), all of which had formally agreed in 1982 to unite after several years of discussions. The ELCA's three predecessor churches were themselves the product of previous mergers and splits among various independent Lutheran synods in the United States.
* The American Lutheran Church
In 1960 the American Lutheran Church, the United Evangelical Lutheran Church, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church merged to form The American Lutheran Church. The Lutheran Free Church joined in 1963. The ALC brought approximately 2.25 million members into the ELCA.
* The Lutheran Church in America
In 1962 the United Lutheran Church in America, the Augustana Evangelical Lutheran Church, the Finnish Evangelical Lutheran Church, and the American Evangelical Lutheran Church formed the Lutheran Church in America. The LCA brought approximately 2.85 million members into the ELCA.
* The Association of Evangelical Lutheran Churches
In 1976 the AELC was formed from congregations that left the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod over issues of biblical literacy, academic freedom and ecumenism. Its establishment was precipitated by the Seminex controversy at the LCMS's Concordia Seminary in St. Louis, Missouri. The AELC brought approximately 100,000 members into the ELCA."
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