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To: SJackson

I've been a Lutheran for over 40 years, having left the Mennonite Church in my mid-teens. This article is nothing but bonk, intended to throw a stink blanket over an entire Christian denomination. I never heard of a 'Church's Caribbean Synod'. Have any of you before this article?

I personally have never been to a church service and listened to anything derogatory toward the Jewish State (Israel), but I sure have heard about radical psycopathic Palestinian Muslims.

I find it amazing that they go on and cite other Christian denomiations by name, so that the ignorant readers would think that they also have taken part previously in the degrading of the Jewish State, but, not quite as bad as these asswipe 'Church's Caribbean Synod' did.

I find it very offensive, after being life time supporter of Israel and Jewish people to read this sh*t!

Rule #1: Always check the motive.

The motive here is obvious to me.


50 posted on 08/09/2005 6:53:49 PM PDT by moonman
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To: moonman
The motive here is obvious to me.

I'm not as discerning as you. Could you explain it to me?

53 posted on 08/09/2005 6:59:11 PM PDT by Sabramerican (Islam is to Peace as Rape is to Love)
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To: moonman
Maybe YOU should take your own good advice. Not only check the motive of that last post, but to check the facts that the Wiestenthal Center represented regarding the Evangelical Lutherans. Being as you were born plain, so to speak, I'd doubt that you are an evangelical. You might be, but I'd be surprised. Always something to be learned, though.
54 posted on 08/09/2005 7:00:02 PM PDT by bvw
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To: moonman
Well, the motive isn't obvious to me. The fact is that the church hierarchy often operates wildly at odds with the people in the pews. Your church might be excellent, there are awesome ELCA churches out there. I had to leave a great one in Pittsburgh.

Link to the Caribbean synod. No indication of the divestment resolution on their website.

The email is info@lutherancariboffice.com

Link to the congregations in the synod. There are only 35. That's not much. A quick guesstimate has me calculating about 3000 in the pews on Sunday. That's not much for a synod.

57 posted on 08/09/2005 7:08:25 PM PDT by AmishDude (Join the AmishDude fan club: "ROFLOL!" -- tuliptree76)
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To: moonman
"In 1998 the Caribbean Synod celebrated the 100th anniversary of the Lutheran presence in Puerto Rico. Missionaries were sent to Puerto Rico from the General Synod, the General Council, and later the United Lutheran Church, all of which were predecessors of the Lutheran Church in America, now part of the ELCA. The Augustana Synod sent many long-term and experienced pastors and church workers. Notable among them were missionaries Albert and Betty Ostrom, who served from 1905 - 1931and began training Puerto Ricans for pastoral service.

The Lutheran Church in Puerto Rico is part of the Caribbean Synod of the ELCA. It has 27 congregations with 26 active pastors and approximately 4,500 members. Congregations in Puerto Rico participate fully in the programs and missions of the ELCA. All use the Spanish language except one congregation in San Juan which has English services to serve the needs of expatriates from the Virgin Islands and other places. Puerto Ricans have been citizens of the U.S.A. since 1917, and Puerto Rico has been a Commonwealth since 1952."

Source: elca.org

58 posted on 08/09/2005 7:10:46 PM PDT by Artemis Webb
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To: moonman; CzarNicky; SJackson; familyop; DoughtyOne; All

7. Caribbean Synod (9F) [2005 Memorial]
WHEREAS, Israel has illegally occupied the West Bank and Gaza
since 1967 and set up colonies and settlements, which now house nearly
420,000 Jews on Palestinian land; and
WHEREAS, these colonies and settlements violate scores of United
Nations resolutions, along with the fourth Geneva Convention; and
WHEREAS, the policies and the procedures of the Israeli
government over the past 57 years of occupation have rendered nearly
two-thirds of native Palestinians as refugees or displaced people; and
WHEREAS, the ongoing erection of a cement wall on confiscated
Palestinian land to serve as a barrier and border between Israel and
Palestine continues to reify the illegal occupation and confiscation of
Palestinian lands; and
WHEREAS, our sisters and brothers in the Evangelical Lutheran
Church in Jordan and the Holy Land under Bishop Munib Younan are
crying out for our support and solidarity in finding creative ways to
resist the tyranny of the Israeli occupation against the Palestinian
people; therefore, be it
RESOLVED, that the congregations and members of the
Caribbean Synod call and memorialize the 2005 Churchwide
Assembly of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America to
enact a divestment and reinvestment initiative like those of the
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), the Anglican Church, and the
World Council of Churches with all of its financial transactions.

‘snip’

RESOLVED, that the 2005 Virginia Synod Assembly call
on its congregations and members to work with the Evangelical
Lutheran Church in America and national, state, and local
government representatives to express concerns and request
Assembly to affirm actions described in the Churchwide Strategy
for Engagement in Israel and Palestine. This strategy was
developed by the Division for Church in Society and the
Division for Global Mission, with participation from other units,
synods, and a wide variety of academics, experts in interfaith
dialogue, advocates, and participants in grassroots networks.
Background information is found in 2005 Pre-Assembly Report,
Section IV, pages 75-78, and the Churchwide Strategy is found
in Section V, pages 48-58. A summary of actions by the ELCA
and its predecessor bodies is included in the strategy.

This strategy affirms the ELCA’s commitment to
accompany its companion church in the Holy Land in mission
and calls for the development of a churchwide campaign, “Peace
Not Walls,” which encourages members, congregations, synods,
and the churchwide organization to join in this effort. It calls for,
among other things, “an end to terrorism and violence by
individuals, organizations, and states” and states that the ELCA
will express this commitment in its advocacy.

According to the strategy, one element of this advocacy will
be to explore economic initiatives, including “promoting positive
economic development in the region to help those most in need,”
“insisting that U.S. tax dollars for foreign aid be distributed to
both Palestinians and Israelis with equity and on condition that
aid be used for economic growth and humanitarian needs,”
“making consumer decisions that favor support to those in
greatest need,” and “managing collective or personal investments
with concern for their impact on the lives of all Holy Land
peoples who suffer from ongoing conflict.”
The promotion of economic initiatives can be manifested in
many forms. For example, shareholder actions including
dialogue with corporate management, filing of shareholder
resolutions, outreach to other shareholders and investment
advisors, and voting of proxies can be used to change corporate
policies or practices. Other economic initiatives include boycotts
of products and services to coerce or to express protest,
divestment, social investing, and development of social screens.
While all of these tools may be available to this church, certain
actions such as divestment are not available to the Board of
Pensions. The Board of Pensions has always taken the position
that divestment, per se, of pension accumulations is an illegal
violation of its fiduciary duties under both federal and Minnesota
law.

As an alternative to divestment, the ELCA Retirement Plan
provides eight investment fund options which are social purpose
funds. These funds apply social screens in accordance with the
values of this church and within the fiduciary responsibility the
Board of Pensions bears for its plan members. The Evangelical
Lutheran Church in America has no policy on the subject of
divestment. While certain other denominations have undertaken
certain economic initiatives, it is the policy of the ELCA that this
church does not comment on actions or matters that are internal
to other church bodies.

The 2005 Churchwide Assembly will be considering a
recommendation related to the Churchwide Strategy and the
“Peace Not Walls” campaign (2005 Pre-Assembly Report,
Section IV, pages 75-77, and Section V, pages 47-60), which
deals with many of the concerns of the synods. However, the
Metropolitan New York and Oregon Synods call on the ELCA
Churchwide Assembly to take a separate action relating to the separation wall.

http://www.elca.org/assembly/05/VotingMatters/ReportoftheMemorialsCommitteeFINAL.pdf

Also see

http://www.elca.org/advocacy/issues/middleeast/separationwall.html

http://www.elca.org/Scriptlib/CO/ELCA_News/encArticleList.asp?a=3044&p=8

http://www.elca.org/middleeast/reports/Appendix%20of%20Actions%20on%20Middle%20East.pdf

http://www.elca.org/middleeast/archived/2004July-archived.html#july24


62 posted on 08/09/2005 8:07:31 PM PDT by dervish (tagline for rent, inquire within)
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To: moonman
I've been a Lutheran for over 40 years,

What do you mean you've been Lutheran for over 40 years? There's Lutheran and then there's Lutheran. There is a world of difference between the synods.

I, too, was raised "Lutheran", and it's been much longer than 40 years. I was raised Lutheran when it meant something. The same synod in which I was raised has gone through to two mergers to where it is now part of the apostate ELCA.

We left 13 years ago for a real "Lutheran" church--LCMS.

68 posted on 08/10/2005 3:28:06 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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